Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Full Version)

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Escribano -> Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 28 2004 21:00:21)

Extract from an interview with Jason Webster, author of Duende - In Search of Flamenco
quote:

Interviewer: Who are your favourite flamenco musicians?
Jason: I think flamenco is going through a bad patch at the moment. There is nothing new and exciting. Enrique Morente is just about the best. He is always pushing things forward. He has an encyclopaedic base - he really knows his stuff, all the palos, and he experiments from there. The thing is to dominate the material and then start experimenting.


So there you have it, all the way from the heart of flamenco.... Valencia.[8|]
Anyone got any comments on Jason's analysis on the state of flamenco?



Ron.M -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 28 2004 22:05:23)

White man talking through his ass, IMO.
Enrique Morente is an excellente musician though, and has nothing to do with this Oxford graduate's perception of Flamenco.
He had about one year's lessons with Rafael in Oxford and used to take notes of Rafa's great and funny stories of his life in Spain playing Flamenco for a living.
Which I believe he based his book on.
(You know that Hollywood is interested in doing a multi million dollar movie about Jason's life with the Gitanos?....Real!....Not a Joke!)
Oxford teaches you how to sell yourself to the World.
That's why it's a World class University.
Cambridge also.
(Jonathan King went there...LOL!)

Check this out...

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=528716

I have spent time with Rafa and he told me the same stories.

So how come Mr. Webster is now the new authority on Flamenco?

(Don't get it unless he believes his own imagination IMO)

cheers

Ron



Billyboy -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 9:03:15)

I agree with him, I haven't bought a solo CD for years, El Veijan the last one which had a great Buleria on it, and I can't for the life of me know how you could advance it any further. PDL latest CD I thought was a complete bore.
Dave



Kate -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 11:50:16)

Well I think that shows his ignorance of flamenco. Does he honestly believe that El Pequeño Reloj was pushing things forward. It contained two tracks which lifted the guitar from old recordings. I suspect he bought a copy of Omega some whileback.

"The thing is to dominate the material and experiment from there" Lets just hope we dont have Duende the album :)

Kate



Kate -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 11:58:42)

quote:

(You know that Hollywood is interested in doing a multi million dollar movie about Jason's life with the Gitanos?....Real!....Not a Joke!)


Now that will be a real comedy, possibly beating Joquin Cortes's Gitano for laughs. Who will play Jason ? Who will play his buddy the speed freak car stealing Gitano ? Can they afford Penolope Cruz for the Señorita? Will they get permission to film in the Alhambra? Special appearance by PdL ????

Who provides the flamenco music , or will they just add salsa to make it more commercial.

That has made my day [:D]

Kate



Kate -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 12:20:39)

From the moment I picked up the book I knew it was wishful fiction. For start he arrives speaking no Spanish and yet not once does he talk about the difficulties of learning the language, and even more difficult understanding the way Gitanos speak and they in turn understanding you. Having spent a lot of time in the hard Gitano neighbourhood myself, having had guns pulled on me and been threatened and bullied, as well as protected , loved and accepted I knew that he was lying. Aside from the fact that in such a short time he had got so good at the guitar that he was accompanying cante professionally and being paid. If so where is the album from Jason Webster , the concerts, the tour to accompany the book ????

And speaking of which .. what strikes me is that if this flamenco group he worked with did exist, where are they now? Surely they would be out there shouting about it, hey we're the band in the book. When 'Driving Over lemons' author write about Emilio Maya he knew about it, so would this group. So where are they ?

Kate



Guest -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 14:50:26)

When I first heard about this book I wanted to read it, but then I read somewhere that the author went to Valencia in search of Flamenco. No one in the recorded history of mankind has ever gone to Valencia in search of Flamenco. It's like going to Minneapolis, Minnesota in search of the Blues. However, if you're going to write fiction and try to pass it off as fact, then it starts to make sense. If he had gone to Jerez, for example, there would be too many witnesses. It would be all too easy to verify what he writes.

I have no problem with someone writing a fictionalized account of something, but I do have a problem when they try to pass it off as fact. There's a bit too much fiction nowadays being passed off as fact. The 'DaVinci Code' comes to mind. There you have a little different situation - a book that's clearly labeled as a novel that tries to convince the reader that it's fact. It's poorly written and badly researched, yet it has become the number one best seller in the world.

I've heard that Webster's book is a good read. Would it have been any less entertaining if he had called it a novel and gave credit to the person on whom he based it? I think not, but reality sells. It's a marketing ploy. I hope the hell this Rafa guy sues the pants off of Webster.

Phil



Escribano -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 14:53:37)

quote:

the author went to Valencia in search of Flamenco

I believe he went to Alicante - much the same.



Guest -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 15:04:57)

I got carried away with my last post and forgot to answer Simon's original question. I agree that Morente is knowledgeable. I've heard some of his early stuff and really like it. There's no doubt in my mind that Morente is firmly rooted in traditional Flamenco, but I personally don't like what he's been doing for the last 20 or so years. Just listen to Morente accompanied by Cañizares in Saura's film 'Flamenco' and tell me it sounds anything like a Siguiriyas. That's just my opinion. Only time will tell if Morente will have any lasting influence. Personally I don't think he will.

Phil



Guest -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 15:22:54)

quote:

I believe he went to Alicante


Sorry, just realized that I wasn't logged in. Anyway, regarding the above quote from Simon - that's what happens when one comments on a book that one hasn't read. [&:]

Phil



Kate -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 29 2004 15:38:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

The 'DaVinci Code' comes to mind. There you have a little different situation - a book that's clearly labeled as a novel that tries to convince the reader that it's fact. It's poorly written and badly researched, yet it has become the number one best seller in the world.

Phil


Hi Phil,
I just read the De Vinci Code and thoroughly enjoyed it. But its definitely fiction and does not pretend other wise. Are you referring to his intro where he states that there really was a secret society Priory of Sion and that Opus Dei really does exist as do the art and architecture that he refers to? Surely that just helps make the story more believable, not true. Of course no-one could believe that the hero really discovered the whereabouts/significance of the Holy Grail.

I was pleased to say I cracked the code before the end [:)] and I enjoyed this a lot more than Duende.

I've got the follow up "Andalus' on my shelf and have skimmed the first chapter. Again Webster places himself as the focus, as an intrepid journalist, going where no man has gone before, discovering illegal workers and mafia farmers ( no mention of the Gitanos this time who do the same work, also so far no mention of the pesticide problem which is causing infertility and cancers). I suppose you could report the same in England ( whelk pickers come to mind) but then it would be real investigative journalism as opposed to a 'best seller' heroic travalogue set in an 'exotic' land where truth and fiction are intertwined in exciting prose and written more in the style of a thriller.

Kate



bailoro2000 -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Aug. 30 2004 11:57:34)

Sounds (without reading the Duende thing) like you'd all have been better saving the money and buying Robin Totton's "Song of the outcasts", a genuine attempt to understand flamenco and with a great CD thrown in. Every book gets its share of "ayes"
and "nos" but Totton comes across as totally genuine. IMO, of course (thouuh not that of some others I won't mention) ((-:.

Kate (off topic and with appologies).

You have to read deeply into the history of the Knights Templar, The history of Freemasonry, The Arthurian Legends and Rosyth Chapel to get an understanding of the
Sion and Opus Dei topics. As a stauch Roman Catholic I got an eye opener from reading books such as : The Hiram Key, The Second Messiah, The History of Rosyth, The Bible Code, The Turin Shroud, The Grail Legends, Arcadia, The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail,
The Gold of Exodus etc etc. There is more mystery and intrigue in fact than any fiction. (((-: Again, just my opinion.

Jim.



miguel -> [Deleted] (Sep. 12 2004 9:35:59)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 13 2004 4:25:23
Reason for deletion: obscenity



gerundino63 -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Sep. 12 2004 18:06:10)

Thanks all!

Did Not know about the book, buyed it yesterday ,the Duch version,( it came out this year)
Checking out here a little, see the name Webster, thought: "hey, isn't that the guy from my book?)
Now I read all of this stuff!![:(]

At least, I can tell you if it brings you as much fun to read, if you know, before you read, the story is a fake.....

BUT, if I ever read a detective before you guys, I tell you who did the crime, and get even!![:D][:D][:D]

Peter.



gerundino63 -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Sep. 12 2004 18:13:44)

Hi Jim!

Sorry, off topic, but Red your post, I am pretty sure you would like the (fiction) book:

Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco
isbn: 90 351 2328 x



Tenshu -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Sep. 12 2004 19:57:23)

Hey Gerundino

I have an excellent book suggestion for you... actually I'd recommend it to everyone here, except I'm pretty sure it's Dutch-only (I live in Belgium myself). A shame, because this is an incredible book, with the heart in the right place.

It's called Duende - Een bericht over Andalucía, flamenco en zigeuners. (Translated: Duende - A note about Andalucia, flamenco and gypsies) written by Ivo Hermans, ISBN 90 6445 084 6.

The writer doesn't try to approach flamenco in a scientific manner, although the book presents extensive historic background, detailed palo info, etc... He talks about where the true essence of flamenco is: in its soul, its duende, something I think we all have forgotten about to some extent.

He travels through Andalucia, passing through long forgotten paths. He visits people, often old friends because he says 'time to visit them is running out'. He takes you through little places noone knows about and tells you their stories, uncovering a bit of the soul of Andalucia.

Definitely an amazing book, written by an amazing man who has actually been there and is constantly drawn towards those strange people who are only limited by the borders of their own imagination.

I actually think this book is so romantic, too emotional, it shouldn't have been released. I strongly advise you to get it; else you'd be missing out.

Comes with a CD with good solid cante.



Guest -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Sep. 12 2004 22:49:32)

Hi Tenshu!

Thanks for the tip!

I red the book already, very good, the first one and half page gave me the goose spots!

Ivo Hermans is from Belgium, right?
Has he written more books?

Hartelijke Groet, Peter



Guest -> RE: Jason Webster and the state of flamenco (Sep. 13 2004 9:59:51)

Cheers Peter.

I hear about that one and it's on my list. I also have the other three books by the author of The Da Vinci code, Dan Brown, although I just got them as a birthday gift and haven't read them yet. Thanks again.

Jim.



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