RE: accompanying dancers question (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - RE: accompanying dancers question: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=116846



Message

at_leo_87 -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 7 2009 9:42:55)

thanks guys!

about playing with the other guitarist, i'd love to use some chordal variations but i'm afraid it might throw him off. and even worse, i dont want to look like a show off. rhythm is not so bad because he strums eighth notes A-Bb-C-Bb-A then i get to play around and syncopate with the dancers.



Alonte -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 11:09:21)

I just had my first experience as a 2nd guitarist last week. Here's a lesson learned the hard way.

I got obsessed with falsetas and fancy stuff. The class was sevillanas. I kept messing up and realized, I did'nt know the basic palos steadily. So now my goals are.

Low on the Fancy stuff and really work on COMPAS! COMPAS! COMPAS!



John O. -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 12:17:28)

Sevillanas are something special with an exact structure and the dancers always need to hear the 1. There are solos for sevillanas but they're very difficult for inexperienced dancers to dance to, even with palmas. Best would be to learn so sing! [:D]



Alonte -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 12:51:31)

I Agree! Im trying to learn to sing the coplas... It's easier to know whats going on.



John O. -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 13:24:30)

Cool! There are some great ones which I'd love to sing - my voice isn't that great though...

What does the other guitarist play?



at_leo_87 -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 15:18:32)

actually, can some explain the structure of sevillanas to me? i never bothered learning them so now im confused.



mark indigo -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 10 2009 23:27:16)

quote:

so for bulerias, when a dancer does something in threes (accents on 12-3-6-9) what can i play on guitar when the straight forward 12-2-6-8-10 compas doesn't work?


if it is a 2 compas section, or multiples of 2 compas, you can play something like this, 3 beats on each chord:

D-, G7, C7, F7, G-7, G-7with G#bass (actually a Bflat7 chord), A, A7

(at the end if you are playing 4 or 6 compases of this you can play 3 beats A, 3 beats A7, and on the very last 6 beats come out on a normal beat 6-10 remate on A)



John O. -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 11 2009 2:10:21)

quote:

can some explain the structure of sevillanas to me?


Thinking in 6/8:

Guitar intro (compás) / Cante intro two tacts / Copla = five tacts repeated three times ending on 1. All done four times.

The guitar intro isn't always the same length but usually 3 or 4 tacts. You let everyone know you're ending by leaving the 6 open on the last two tacts, the dancers usually do palmas in contra on the last tact.

The the first two sets of five tacts in the copla usually are the same and based on the cante intro, the third is a bit different. It's not really a rule though, you can repeat a 5-tact melody three times or have three different parts.

If you listen to a couple of them you'll hear it, it's a lot easier to hear than to write out as I have [:D] - the structure is always the same.



mark indigo -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 12 2009 6:32:21)

quote:

Cante intro two tacts / Copla = five tacts ....
guitar intro ....usually 3 or 4 tacts. ....leaving the 6 open on the last two tacts, .......palmas in contra on the last tact


what's a "tact"??



John O. -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 12 2009 14:41:26)

Thinking in 6/8 a tact would be six beats.

Sorry, we say tact in German, I meant bar! [:D]



at_leo_87 -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 12 2009 16:57:25)

quote:


if it is a 2 compas section, or multiples of 2 compas, you can play something like this, 3 beats on each chord:

D-, G7, C7, F7, G-7, G-7with G#bass (actually a Bflat7 chord), A, A7

(at the end if you are playing 4 or 6 compases of this you can play 3 beats A, 3 beats A7, and on the very last 6 beats come out on a normal beat 6-10 remate on A)


last class, they were doing it as a 3 compas section. [:-]

but this is cool, i'll try it out playing solo and if they start doing 4 compas, i'll have something to try out. thanks!



at_leo_87 -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 12 2009 16:59:10)

quote:

Thinking in 6/8:

Guitar intro (compás) / Cante intro two tacts / Copla = five tacts repeated three times ending on 1. All done four times.

The guitar intro isn't always the same length but usually 3 or 4 tacts. You let everyone know you're ending by leaving the 6 open on the last two tacts, the dancers usually do palmas in contra on the last tact.

The the first two sets of five tacts in the copla usually are the same and based on the cante intro, the third is a bit different. It's not really a rule though, you can repeat a 5-tact melody three times or have three different parts.

If you listen to a couple of them you'll hear it, it's a lot easier to hear than to write out as I have - the structure is always the same.


so if there is no singer, how would the format be?

intro, another intro, falsetta?

slightly offtopic, how come some people don't consider sevillanas very flamenco? i avoided them at first because of this prejudice but they can actually be interesting. sometimes they give me the feel of a "mini-fandangos de huelva."



mark indigo -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 13 2009 0:48:37)

quote:

3 beats on each chord:

D-, G7, C7, F7, G-7, G-7with G#bass (actually a Bflat7 chord), A, A7


quote:

they were doing it as a 3 compas section.


they were doing it like that on purpose to mess you up![&:][;)]

the simplest (and perhaps the best) way would be something like;

4x3beats on A, 4x3beats on Bflat, 4x3beats on A (presumably coming out of the threes and winding up with a remate on the last 6 beats according to the choreography)

but you could do 4x3beats on A, 4x3beats on Bflat, then 3 beats on C, 3 beats on Bflat, and remate on A for the last 6 beats

if you want to try the longer sequence you could do 2 x 3beats on each of the first 4 chords D-, G7, C7, F7, then as before

or you could do 3 beats each of D-7, D-7flat5, G7, G7flat5, C7, C7flat5, F7, F7flat5, G-7, G-7/G#, then remate on A for 6beats, or A for 3, A7 for 3 to loop back and repeat according to the choreography

this is a bit formulaic and overly pattern-acious (i think i just made that word up), but it's the sort of thing i have come up with playing in classes and can just throw in - there are probably more authentic ways of putting in passing chords and/or making an extended chord sequence, but i don't know them (yet!)

the other problem with really long chord sequences is that if you mess it up, or if they mess it up/improvise (like they leave a compas out) you are out there on some strange chord far from home and you have to get back real quick somehow!



John O. -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 13 2009 6:25:49)

quote:

so if there is no singer, how would the format be?


Therein lies the problem with solo guitar Sevillanas for dance. The guitar in that case should copy a singer, but if you listen to a lot of singing or falsetas they don't always accent the 1, which is important. It'd be best with a back-up guitar or a guitar solo which is strictly in threes.

is an example to show you what I mean. I play the first three for classes, the last Sabicas one doesn't work well. None of them work well without palmas from the instructor because the melody isn't clear enough for the students.

Sevillanas have their place in flamenco, but are originally from Spanish folk music, from the Seguidilla. Not originally flamenco, but taken from Spanish folklore.



at_leo_87 -> RE: accompanying dancers question (Nov. 13 2009 21:28:25)

that's a lot of ideas. thanks, mark! it's the weekend which means i get to try all this stuff out at dance class for the next two days. [:D]

john, thanks for the video!



Page: <<   <   1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET