RE: Curing tendonitis (Full Version)

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gj Michelob -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Aug. 10 2009 5:54:12)

quote:

Part of my job is recognising and treating repetitive stress injuries(RSIs), and technically, that's what you had (unless this is a flare-up of a previously diagnosed case of tendonitis). It may seem like nit-picking but there is a distinction, and it can be important. It can be a bad idea for people to diagnose themselves.


Pimientito and Exitao, from your command of the medical lingo and confident knowledge of the subject at hand (no pun intended) can we deduce you both are physicians?



michall -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 16 2009 7:47:08)

2Pimientito:
Thanx man for an advice! I have the same problem now, I have started playing a lot(like 4hours per day) after half year pause and fell preasure in exactly same place like on ur photos. Wau this foro is great...

My teacher also said that I cant play - push the strings in left and soo spasmodically, but you can use it in generall for both hands..



henrym3483 -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 24 2009 12:28:36)

hate to resurect this thread but for the last 3 weeks ive been having problems with my right hand, ive been getting a dull pain in the muscle's of my right hand.
it starts happening after 30-50 mins on playing, i warm up for 10mins and i take breaks every 15mins.

i work in a call centre and typing is part of the job overall, but i was wondering whether pimientito could chime in on this

im getting the pains along the points marked in red, its weird most tendonitis in the hand ive heard occurs in the knuckle or just above it.

im going to see the doctor about it



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mrMagenta -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 24 2009 13:15:42)

I can't offer any help, but I get sore in a similar way, in a line on the outside of the finger, just like the one you've drawn, but on the outer side of the little finger.

One time it got really bad and I couldn't play for a month, it radiated up the side of the palm. I don't use the little finger much so I guess it has to be because it's coupled with the movement of the other fingers or that it gets strained from some sub-optimal wrist angle, perhaps when playing thumb techniques.

Take it easy



Pimientito -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 26 2009 1:34:03)

Hi Henry

Thanks for posting the photo. I would say firstly that the site of pain is not typical tendonitis. I have posted a diagram of the tendons of the hand. You can see that the muscles of the hand are in the palm. The muscles of the fingers are in the forearm and the fingers themselves dont have muscle in them. The finger tendons extend from the forearm and attach to the finger joints allowing you to open and close them. The tendons are wrapped in a tendon sheath which are lubricated allow smooth movement and are bound close to the finger bones by a stocking of ligaments to keep everything in place. Covering all that is a layer of fatty tissue and skin.

The tendons run along the midline of the finger, flexors on the palmar side and extensors on the dorsum. If a tendon is inflammed there is usually a sharp painful point in the tendon itself. Sometimes it is enlarged at the site of inflammation and feels like a lump in the tendon. The pain is made worse by moving the finger.

It looks like you have a soft tissue inflammation in that part of your hand. As the pain is coming on after about 30-50 minutes of playing it means that the tissues are getting irritated by your playing. A tendonitis would be immediately painful.
If you had any redness in the first phalynge (finger joint) I would suggest that you had some kind of low grade infection of the finger nail. That doesnt look to be the case. The intrinsic muscles of the hand provide lateral movement of the fingers and its possible that the small tendon running on the lateral edge of the finger could be the cause of the problem. You can try straping the finger in the way I've shown and rest it for a while. My suspician is that there is some connective tissue/fascial componant to the pain and thats not something you can easily fix yourself.

Im sure Exitao can offer his opinion too. Its good you are going to the doctor and i hope he can recommend you see a specialist. It could be coming from a number of sources in your wrist and hand and it needs a physical exam to determine the problem.



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Stu -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 26 2009 3:00:17)

I had a bout of tendonitis down the little finger side of my left hand!

What a nightmare. I went to hospital and got a splint and some anti inflammatories but they didnt seem to be working..... I decided to get a new chair and hey presto! it almost went away over night!

folks with injuries should consider it may be stress or tension being held elsewhere in the body that is causing a problem....

never any any probs since.. fingers crossed it stays that way



henrym3483 -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 26 2009 14:04:12)

steeped my hand in warm water with radox salts last night did it the world of good and hand feels more relaxed and little or no tension, pain has been reduced also. im thinking of doing this for a week to see how it helps. organised meeting with doctor and am hoping i get refered to a massage specialist or osteopath to see if they can sort it out.

i am trying to keep a positive outlook on it, had a fit of depression a couple of nights back thinking i would never play the guitar again or get to where i would like with it. its amazing how integral these things come towards your happiness and enjoymnet of life.[:)]



henrym3483 -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 28 2009 8:40:11)

Ok went to see the doc and he thinks the radial nerver running down my index finger has become trapped or compressed. been told to stop playing with the right hand for a month and if the rest does not alleviate it i will have to see an osteopath or hand specialist.



Stu -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Oct. 29 2009 1:38:57)

**** henry! thats a shame man... sorry to hear it!

quote:

been told to stop playing with the right hand for a month


Thats no good, what will you do?? left hand practice only?!?

hope it improves soon



Alonte -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Apr. 1 2010 10:28:17)

I would like to ressurect this thread. Hey Flo I have the very exact same problem you have on the very same spot. How are you dealing with it now? And what did you do to alleviate the pain?



Doitsujin -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Apr. 1 2010 14:09:25)

You have to put your hand once a day in fresh pee for at least 1hour. You will be cured soon. That sounds hard...but its a method you have to trust.. [;)]

..... ok its a joke... but 1st of april. I just cant let you pee one your hand... Im not such an evil person. [:)]



Rain -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Apr. 1 2010 15:04:11)

I had tennis elbow for(Tendinitis) 7 months, I could not use my entire right hand.
Brace and rest was the cure.

For seven months I practiced left hand slurs and chords even learned a few guitar pieces. At the end of seven months my left hand was developed and stronger than I could have ever managed.

So I suggest you get diagnosed and than make some lemonade.

Good luck and take care and heal quickly.

Rain



kenjitakeshi -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 12:25:01)

Dear fellow Flamenco friends,

I've been playing Flamenco for about 15 years and never had any problems before, but for the last year or so I began to gradually struggle with my right hand fingers while doing arpeggios and especially tremolos. My ring and middle fingers somehow mysteriously began to curl into the palm of my hand "involuntarily" so it takes a conscious effort for me to uncurl them and have them strike the correct strings on the guitar. In other words, I can still do arpeggios, but they take a lot of effort and my right hand gets very tired quickly because my fingers are not relaxed (since I am forcing them to uncurl in order to hit the proper strings)

This has gotten progressively worse and I am now completely unable to do tremolo and I'm struggling heavily with simple arpeggios which I used to be able to do easily. Oddly whatever I'm experiencing has not affected my thumb or picado at all so I can still do these with great ease. I can also do all kinds of rasgueados, but due to the same involuntary curling-in of the middle and ring fingers my hand gets tired very quickly so I am no longer able to do long ragueados like I used to. It's worth mentioning that I do not have any pain at all anywhere. I've tried doing research on the internet, but I haven't been able to find anything remotely similar to what I'm experiencing.

Not knowing what was causing this I had to adjust my playing by replacing most arpeggios and tremolos in the songs I play, and using picado or thumb instead. The result is that I've purposely stayed away from doing tremolos and arpeggios for almost a year and maybe this avoidance has made the condition worse (since my fingers are not exposed to doing the techniques regularly).

I confess that I miss tremolos and arpeggios with a passion and it's a very helpless feeling not being able to do them. Since my middle and ring fingers are involuntarily curling in after striking each string, what ends up happening is they miss the right string often and it results in very frustrating, sloppy playing.

I considered that maybe I am getting some form of rheumatism? (That would be very sad because I would love to be able to play flamenco for the rest of my life) or carpal tunnel? (Since I work on a PC all day). Whatever is happening to my right hand is also affecting my typing so my right hand gets very tired after only a minute or so. It's affecting me to such an extent that I am now typing only with my left hand so my right hand can rest! My right forearm is also very often fatigued even though I don't play often. In fact, I used to play hours a day without a problem, and now due to my condition I only play 5-15 minutes daily.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback/advice/comments on this debilitating condition. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Kenji



Exitao -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 13:10:44)

See a doctor. ASAP.

Until you do see a doctor, cease all activities with that hand that aggravate your condition in any way.

You should not have allowed it to progress this far without medical attention.



henrym3483 -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 13:26:48)

my update is that the issue with my rh has cleared up after some rest, sports shoulder deep tissue massage and soaking the hand for over a month in luke-warm water.
other things which helped were tai-chi qigong exercises and rolling shoulder exercises. im am however more cautious as to how i treat my hands to stop this re-occuring again.

i also got a wrist/hand support for typing at work. since then i have been playing pretty happily.



NormanKliman -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 13:35:50)

Maybe it's the typing. Correct posture and some kind of support under your wrists is very important.

Perico del Lunar had a similar problem with curling fingers.



XXX -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 13:43:17)

Not only doctor, perhaps if you can find, a hand surgeon! I went to one one month ago and only since then it is improving. You should go to a weekly therapy, where they both relax and train your fingers & tendons. From an injury on the index finger i can tell a general experience that completely stopping playing is a bad idea (the therapist also said this, but maybe depends on your condition). Another point is to balance the stress, that means extensors & flexors and to train other fingers too. Also check if you are hypermobile. Rheuma is usually accompanied by a swelling.
Compare your left to your right hand. Feels stronger right? Well that comes from training the grabbing muscles while playing. I have started to train my right hand and you should consider doing this too, and probably not only for months, maybe years. It is important to move the fingers IMO, and not rest them completely (if theres no pain and no inflammation).



gj Michelob -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 24 2010 16:17:47)

quote:

See a doctor. ASAP.

Until you do see a doctor, cease all activities with that hand that aggravate your condition in any way.

You should not have allowed it to progress this far without medical attention.


Absolutely, Kenji, do not take Health (nor Justice for that matter) in your own 'hands"

I made that mistake ad allowed an inflammation to degenerate. After several excruciating acupuncture sessions, offering temporary relief, last July I finally found myself with a permanently immobile LH’s index finger which surgery and a few months off the strings finally and painfully cured.

Do not indulge in false hopes of self healing. See a Doctor, ideally an orthopedic doctor concentrating on hand surgery. Do not worry, however strage and rare you may think your condition is, your physician will have seen it and healed it daily



Pimientito -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 25 2010 2:31:36)

quote:

Not only doctor, perhaps if you can find, a hand surgeon!


Hi Kenji. I totally agree with everything that has been said . 2 conditions that affect your flexion of the ring finger are dupuytrens contracture or chronic thickening of the tendon sheaths. Both require medical attention from a specialist and it should have been looked at months ago. Get it it looked at whilst there is still time to reverse some of the damage.



kenjitakeshi -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 25 2010 9:37:09)

Thank you all so much for your helpful responses! It is clear to me that I should seek medical assistance from a specialist. gj Michelob is right. I've always taken all my injuries into my own hands (no pun intended) and this may be one that just won't go away / heal by itself unless I have it looked at.

Pimientito, I looked into dupuytrens contracture and chronic thickening of the tendon sheaths and both sound similar to what I might be experiencing only in a more mild case. I truly hope I haven't waited too long to cause irreversible damage.

Thank you all again for your feedback!

Domo arigatou gozaimashita! (Thank you very much!) :)



Ricardo -> RE: Curing tendonitis (May 25 2010 12:51:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kenjitakeshi

Dear fellow Flamenco friends,

I've been playing Flamenco for about 15 years and never had any problems before, but for the last year or so I began to gradually struggle with my right hand fingers while doing arpeggios and especially tremolos. My ring and middle fingers somehow mysteriously began to curl into the palm of my hand "involuntarily" so it takes a conscious effort for me to uncurl them and have them strike the correct strings on the guitar. In other words, I can still do arpeggios, but they take a lot of effort and my right hand gets very tired quickly because my fingers are not relaxed (since I am forcing them to uncurl in order to hit the proper strings)

This has gotten progressively worse and I am now completely unable to do tremolo and I'm struggling heavily with simple arpeggios which I used to be able to do easily. Oddly whatever I'm experiencing has not affected my thumb or picado at all so I can still do these with great ease. I can also do all kinds of rasgueados, but due to the same involuntary curling-in of the middle and ring fingers my hand gets tired very quickly so I am no longer able to do long ragueados like I used to. It's worth mentioning that I do not have any pain at all anywhere. I've tried doing research on the internet, but I haven't been able to find anything remotely similar to what I'm experiencing.

Not knowing what was causing this I had to adjust my playing by replacing most arpeggios and tremolos in the songs I play, and using picado or thumb instead. The result is that I've purposely stayed away from doing tremolos and arpeggios for almost a year and maybe this avoidance has made the condition worse (since my fingers are not exposed to doing the techniques regularly).

I confess that I miss tremolos and arpeggios with a passion and it's a very helpless feeling not being able to do them. Since my middle and ring fingers are involuntarily curling in after striking each string, what ends up happening is they miss the right string often and it results in very frustrating, sloppy playing.

I considered that maybe I am getting some form of rheumatism? (That would be very sad because I would love to be able to play flamenco for the rest of my life) or carpal tunnel? (Since I work on a PC all day). Whatever is happening to my right hand is also affecting my typing so my right hand gets very tired after only a minute or so. It's affecting me to such an extent that I am now typing only with my left hand so my right hand can rest! My right forearm is also very often fatigued even though I don't play often. In fact, I used to play hours a day without a problem, and now due to my condition I only play 5-15 minutes daily.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback/advice/comments on this debilitating condition. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Kenji


Do a google search for "Focal Hand Dystonia". Very common amongst classical guitar players and other instrumentalists. I am actually shocked nobody mentioned it yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Leisner

some hope before getting scared:



a_arnold -> RE: Curing tendonitis (Jun. 23 2010 22:37:01)

quote:

A sticky--or even a separate section dedicated to this type of topic--would be a good idea.


That has my vote. Too much loud rasgueado during a performance or a long workshop can give me right hand issues. I don't even know what to call them.
And if we're talking senior moments, there's always the lower back issue from sitting too long in one position.

A short collection of medical solutions/problems would be very welcome for reference -- sort of like Ricardo's collected flamenco chords.



akatune -> [Deleted] (Jun. 24 2010 7:33:53)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 13 2013 16:53:23



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