How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Full Version)

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Florian -> How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 1 2009 7:39:48)

I kind of posted this on the other tread but i thought it deserved its own tread ...well cause i am proud of them [:)]..

its not eazy doing flamenco in a MTV type setting...knowing what aspect of flamenco to pick that works well and dosent alienate and fits in with the event

the music choreography and the way it all worked was just perfect...i assure u this guys can do and do traditional too (not thaat i need too i am sure u can see past the comercial approach) but a different approach was required in this type of event...different approaches are required for different events imo...theres no point of getting the award for the most puro flamenco on the block if you not entertaining the people imediatly in front of you in a way that they are acctualy entertained and not alienated because its too much difference to what they used to...too quick

imo a wise decision not to use a flamenco singer..cause for an unflamenco crowd that young who came out to see an Mtv type rock concert it might have been to risky...too much different to take in at once, too quick

id save that type of thing for theatres where crowd can relax and pay more attention to subtle parts of flamenco..and they know they came to see flamenco

this is happening in melbourne...andrey (cajon player ) and chica are from Spain, the other guys (kanela guys) from melbourne, greate artists ...i had the pleasure of accompanying chica for some worshops in Adelaide and we spend alot of time togheder discussing and having them advice us abut our choreographies, even spend some time accompanying her for her stuff while she was practicing for it this
beautiful people





the music and everything was choreographed just perfectly imo...how do you choreograph for MTV to a room that big and to that many people.. while staying true to flamenco...due to the crowds screaming u loose the dynamics of low subtle stuff so u have to work around that, soft stuf, falsetas etc are out...i think they way they tought outside the box and choreographed that whole stage of instruments was brilliant...

inspires me and makes me thing harder about going the extra mile in music that is perfectly choroegraphed with the dancing and fits it perfectly , what impresses me the most is the size of the sound, the amount of instruments and precussions all working perfectly togheder with the dancers feet...i hope u can apreciate the precision and amount of organisation that must have gonne into it...theres only 4 flamencos there..the rest of the musiceans were trained by the flamencos on flamenco compas and beyond compas...syncompated footwork


hope u like it..flamenco scene in Australia is triving atm..excited about the future

its not traditional but it is creative and entertaining and good flamenco..its one thing to be a good guitarrist or a good dancer another to be a good entertainer smart enuogh to think outside the box, think creatively and make the most of your oportunities..captivating people regardless of their tastes

got to give credit where credit is due



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Ron.M -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 1 2009 10:41:04)

That's certainly very impressive stuff Flo.
Very 21st Century Flamenco....they had the audience eating out of the palms of their hands.

Wow! STADIUM Flamenco!
Who would have dreamt of it...

Jeez, it's certainly come a long way from the bars and dives of Sevilla and Jerez.

Flo...I'm genuinely not being sarcastic or anything here (although I know your first impression on anything I say will be taken like that.) [:D]

(Don't know how I've got this reputation?) [:-][:D]

I think a lot of the audience there would equally have adored Michael Jackson dancing....

BUT I genuinely think it's great that some Flamenco artists can scale up a show to enthusiase so many young folk, many who would only have a rough idea about what Flamenco even is...and as you say, without manipulating or adulterating the rhythms etc, but sticking to what any aficionado would recognise as genuine (and good) Flamenco.

Although it's not my kinda scene, all credit to them and they certainly give the famed Joaquin Cortes roadshow a run for it's money IMO.

Enjoyed it very much. They got my vote anyway.

cheers,

Ron



Florian -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 1 2009 10:47:11)

quote:

Flo...I'm genuinely not being sarcastic or anything here (although I know your first impression on anything I say will be taken like that.)


lol its ok Ron [:D] i know u not..i dont think everything u say is sarcastic..I am not sure what gave you that impression ..i agree with most of the stuff u say more often then you think...but weather i agree or disagree i always respect it and take it in..regardless of our sometimes differences of opinions i think u have great sense
and i dont overlook anything u have to say about anything

and I 90% expected you to see past the commercialness of it, i had a feeling you would..behind that its just greate flamenco and a great way to expose people who wouldnt otherwise be exposed to it in a way that its not too much to take in for them, without waterring it down too much..and that deserves respect..it could have so eazely been too watered down too much and go the other way too much...but it didnt ..they found a way to entertain the young unflamenco crowd and remain flamenco..thats not to be taken lightly...too much pop or too much traditional might have not worked as well ..regardless if it was Eva la Yerbabuena dancing (wich btw i am seeing soon in Sidney !!)

regardless of our personal taste in flamenco and wich era of flamenco we come from and enjoy...this deserves some credit

quote:

I think a lot of the audience there would equally have adored Michael Jackson dancing....


and what a compliment that is for them and flamenco

and thank you for taking the time to contribuite, its not fun talking to noone..i was starting to get worried...was worried the forum might have moved again and people neglected to tell me...again [:D]



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 1 2009 12:41:39)

As far as I'm concerned it's OK for an artist to use a more commercial approach to music after they have paid their dues mastering an established genre of music.

They really packed them in didn't they.



polishcomedy -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 1 2009 18:26:35)

absolutely amazing find. thanks for that!



Doitsujin -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 5:04:03)

The video looks a bit like Joaquin Cortes "Hey girls..look at me, Im doing fancy moves half naked with wet hair on stage.. Its not important what Im doing,. but Im half naked and look damn cool..,that makes you buy my DVD to get some closeups"....

We guys have pornos for that... women have Joaquin Cortes and cheesy love-romance-books..



Florian -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 5:42:22)

glad you guys like it [:)], you are welcome Patrick

quote:

The video looks a bit like Joaquin Cortes "Hey girls..look at me, Im doing fancy moves half naked with wet hair on stage.. Its not important what Im doing,. but Im half naked and look damn cool..,that makes you buy my DVD to get some closeups"....

We guys have pornos for that... women have Joaquin Cortes and cheesy love-romance-books..



[:D][:D][:D]

I hear you amigo...but its not his fault ..its the stupid ridicoulos superficial world we live in today..the magazines, the movies, mtv..its gotten out of hand, sex is everywhere...litlle girls want brests implants...and 10 year old boys are fashion concious and want designer label sneakers...everyone wants to date brad pitt and angelina and wont setlle for anything else..we have built it up so much and so fake that noone can actually live up to it lol including brad pitt and angelina...my point is that u cant blame one guy for something that took a whole society to allow it to become acceptable

hes just a victim of the silly unrealistic image that the media have build of dancers, actors , musiceans and beautiful people..just cause he prefers the obvious unsophisticated approach ( unlike 2 classy chaps like us [;)])

dosent mean hes at fault..on the other hand..it was a tanktop, wasent barechested and it did look hot there before..i imagine it gets very hot dancing in a suit he might have had other motives besides "sex" have you seen the state of a dancers suit after a solo ? if it was me i would probably do the same to get longher life out of it just use the suit to make an entrance and then take it off try to preserve it longher

thing is if it was an midlle aged guy with a beer gut...you wouldnt think twice ...would just assume the guy got hot..


btw.. i say all this not really knowing the guy dancing for all i know he could be vain ...who cares....I am a litlle vain i guess ...but then again I am goodlooking [;)]....i know the other people more ..i had dinnner with him a couple of times last time when he came down with the other people I know and we did chat for a litlle bit, he seemed ok but i dont really know him..we talked about movies...but their achivement deserved a mention regardless i thought



gshaviv -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 7:45:17)

This is about as good Flamenco as you can get out of Spain. A few years ago I would have said I like it. Today, I like more the intimate Flamenco, the flamenco that is more a social event rather then a show. The kind of Flamenco I have yet to see outside of Spain as you can only get it if its in the culture.

That said, the world is going the MTV way, so it's these kind of shows that get the crowd excited about flamenco.



Florian -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 8:22:49)

quote:

This is about as good Flamenco as you can get out of Spain. A few years ago I would have said I like it. Today, I like more the intimate Flamenco, the flamenco that is more a social event rather then a show. The kind of Flamenco I have yet to see outside of Spain as you can only get it if its in the culture.


sorry man i am not sure what you mean...do you mean that you only prefer flamenco that happens at a party or in a bar anywhere else as long as its outside a theatre or a concert hall ? there must be a reason why they good enough to be there..must be a reason why a concert hall or theatre holds more people then a pub or a party

surely u not refering to the artists and the level as some are from Spain and the others travel there regularly ...



Guest -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 8:24:45)

quote:

This is about as good Flamenco as you can get out of Spain.


Sadly, this is the kind of flamenco you are likely to find in Spain too[:o] The times they are a-changing.

Suerte

Sean



XXX -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 8:25:00)

Apart from the additional instruments - was this really so much different than a normal flamenco show? Its maybe not the traditional setup, but to me its totally flamenco! I like it. Only the synth keyboard was not my thing...



Florian -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 8:32:22)

quote:

Sadly, this is the kind of flamenco you are likely to find in Spain too


hehe this is conservative and traditional next to some stuff i have seen from Spain...eg J Cortez coming onstage naked out of his moms vagina represented by a giant red velvet vagina Genius[:D]...i gues you have to establish
those sort of things early in the show when doing a self biography show or people will not know how u came to be here and spend the whole concert confused..." yes but where did he come from ?[8|]"



but ofcourse goes without saying theres alot of brilliant stuff too



gshaviv -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 9:26:56)

quote:

sorry man i am not sure what you mean...do you mean that you only prefer flamenco that happens at a party or in a bar anywhere else as long as its outside a theatre or a concert hall ? there must be a reason why they good enough to be there..must be a reason why a concert hall or theatre holds more people then a pub or a party

surely u not refering to the artists and the level as some are from Spain and the others travel there regularly ...


What I meant is my taste is in more personal shows, where you can feel some more intimate connection with the performer. But that's solely my personal taste. Nonetheless, the show these guys put is exquisite and exciting in its own way, I did enjoy watching the video, and I enjoyed seeing what a big crowd was there and enjoyed as well.



Florian -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 9:46:10)

fair enough [:)]



cathulu -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 2 2009 11:28:48)

I thought it was pretty cool. Most of the people there were exposed to flamenco probably for the first time in their life.

As you said, cante will not fly with that crowd! Can you imagine the crowd reaction if there was? I'd bet more than half the people here can do without cante so we can't cast stones!



Chiste de Gales -> RE: How to make flamenco work in a MTV type setting (Aug. 4 2009 11:56:50)

I would have preferred the sound mix to have the dancers set louder.
Its disappointing to not hear their feet.



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