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Patrick -> Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 17:50:58)

OK, this is a continuation of my thoughts from yesterday.

As I said in my earlier post I think we, even though unintentionally, run the risk of alienating members. I am sure Simon can run the numbers, but I would have to believe that 90% of the posts come from 10% of the members. If you are one of those 10%, put yourself in the mindset of a beginner. If you had a question about flamenco, would you want to expose your ignorance to the world? Now, the answer is probably "yes" you would ask the question. But remember you in the 10% (outgoing group), so what about the other 90% that would really like an answer but are unwilling to step up to the plate.

So here are some thoughts to bat around. I would like to see a few of the more knowledgeable members be willing to be placed on a list that could be contacted directly without having to post on the open forums. Now I know someone is saying "hey anybody can email me anytime they want". I understand that, but unless you make it formal and establish an area for members to find those willing to field these questions, it ain't gonna happen.

I think it would be great for a member to be able to send an MP3 for critique without feeling the world is listening in. In a way, I see it as a “mentor” program.

Names like Ron, Florian, Miguel, Jim, to name a few come to mind!

We could have a new section in the list of forums or place it under “Flamenco Resources”. It could be titled something like “Ask One of Our Members”.

What are your thoughts?

Pat



Billyboy -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 19:11:25)

I don't see what the problem is Pat, how are we alienating members?
Dave



Patrick -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 20:03:55)

quote:

I don't see what the problem is Pat, how are we alienating members?


Dave,

There is no problem and we are not alienating members (at this point). I think you missed the point.

The simple fact is, human nature will dictate how people interface on a public forum. If there are members that feel intimidated to post a question or an MP3, why shouldn't we establish a venue to reach out to them?

The facts remain, that many, many forums over time become an outlet for a small number to vent and chastise anyone that may upset their view of the world. I'm just trying to toss out an idea on how to lay out a more congenial welcome mat, nothing more, nothing less.

Pat



Billyboy -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:01:22)

The problem is if there is one, is similar to guitar clubs I go to, the people that tend to get up and play are people who are quite advanced in playing, I'm the same, I would never have gotten up in the first place when I was just learning, years ago. You are bound to get a mixture of players in any club. The nature of Iternet forums is that when you click on last posts it would come up with exactly that, even if we created a separate forum, It would still be visable to all members, and as I see it, would not solve anything, and I don't think anyone has ever been shot down in flames for posting anything flamenco related, also don't people think there is enough rooms or forums on foro. ?
Cheers
Dave



gerundino63 -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:02:17)

there is allways a possibility to log out and post the all time stupid question as a guest.....


( I do it all the time! LOL )

Peter.

But I must say, i like the idear!
Not all the people are the big mouth always sit in front kind of people like me!



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:21:34)

It guess that's fine. There are a couple of problems, though. One is that when you solve a beginner's problem in a FORUM, then all of the other beginners get the benefit of that. I think that's a good thing.



Ron.M -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:24:01)

I appreciate what you're saying Pat.
If anybody wants to send me an mp3 or anything then I certainly would give them an honest critique, so long as they understand that I'm no expert myself, but will do the best I can based on my own experience.
On "questions" however, I'd rather things be open, so that everybody can benefit from the answers, just as I have.
So I'd say that anybody who has any questions on any aspect of Flamenco to post them.
Amongst us I would guess there would be a better answer than just trying to work it out for yourself!
By the way a new poster "sonikete" wrote a most interesting and informative piece today on Bulerias compás! (Though that thread was probably thrashed to death LOL!)
It was a very good piece indeed, though!
Cheers, sonikete!! .... Liked it mucho!

Anyway, I definitely hear what you're saying Pat.

cheers

Ron



Patrick -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:37:11)

Dave,

I still think you are missing the point.

I am not proposing a separate forum that people would post to. I am proposing we simply set up a way for folks to email and send MP3's to the mentors on the list. No post would be made to the forum.

In fact, you just said it, that the best players do most of the MP3 posting. Hell, I'm a halfway decent player and I feel intimidated to post audio.

When Simon first set up Foro, we had all levels of MP3 post being made. You don't see that happening anymore. Its basic human nature, as better and better player’s start posting, lesser players feel intimidated and don't post and in the end don't learn.

I agree, not one time has any poster been shot down. But I would venture to guess that 50 to 100 people on this forum have not sent in an MP3 or asked a question and likely never will. I have had people contact me direct from this forum to ask me questions. I wonder how many are out there that would like to have Ron, Henrik, Jim, etc. give them a little guidance in private.

In fact, I’ll be the first one to step up and say I would be honored to be on the list if anyone wants me!

Pat



Patrick -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:39:25)

quote:

It guess that's fine. There are a couple of problems, though. One is that when you solve a beginner's problem in a FORUM, then all of the other beginners get the benefit of that. I think that's a good thing.


Mike,

I agree, but are they asking the question or posting an MP3 in the first place? Maybe yes, maybe no.

Let's not shut that group out.

Pat



Patrick -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:43:29)

quote:

On "questions" however, I'd rather things be open, so that everybody can benefit from the answers, just as I have.


Ron,

I am in full agreement, but simply asking folks to post and getting them, are two different things.

Ask yourself, how many questions have gone unasked by members because they didn't want to post publicly or God forbid post an MP3?



Ron.M -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 21:53:50)

OK Pat, I see what you're saying, so put my name up as well then for what it's worth, though there are a lot better players on this Forum.
As for posting mp3's I'm over 50 now so I don't give a...a ...whit! LOL!

cheers

Ron



Escribano -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 22:02:10)

Why don't we just collaborate on a "Flamenco for Dummies" book.... no offence, I am serious. Wish they had had that book a couple of years ago when I was starting out. If you want, I'll approach the "for Dummies" publishers[:D]



gerundino63 -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 10 2004 22:13:04)

Perhaps it is useful to make an email adress known for a that kind of questions and mp3.
the owner of that email adress can post the post here in confident, so the guy with the verry verry stupid question gets his answer from all of us, so everybody else can learn from it too.?



two things, 1- there are no stupid questions
2- we where all beginners some day in our "guitar live".

I know i kick in an open door here, but i like to have said this.

greetings, Peter.



Escribano -> Running the numbers (Aug. 10 2004 22:15:21)

quote:

I am sure Simon can run the numbers


In the last 30 days, 74 members have logged in and 42 of those have posted something - that's 56%.

Since the forum started 28% of our total (current) membership are active i.e. posted anything.



mentrida -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 11 2004 2:24:11)

As a new member and beginer I can tell you that you all have a great forum. Well balanced, covering lots of topics and with good exchange of ideas. I personally don't do a lot of postings because I feel most of my questions are really a matter of "needing to practice and work things out".
Chords, techniques, positions, etc. all get brought up enough to cover any question anyone has. So just checking in and reading is great. Sometimes I feel like a junkie... need to log in and read all of you posting to get my fix. Specially during those periods when life's too busy to practice.

If you really have the newbies in mind, having something to teach/explain the differences between palos and how to keep compas would really be helpful. Your jam sessions are great BTW. I know there are a lot of resources, but if you're in a forum is usually because you're alienated, and listening to internet radio and cd's is great but does not always help/teach how to figure out the compas, explain variations, etc. Great example was the threat on the Bulerias by two's. I learned a lot with that from all sides.

With all that said, the idea is very good, but maybe you could acomplish the same without making too much work for Simon by just having the names posted or links available to those who are willing to help out individually for the shy ones.

Hope I'm not out of line or missed the point.
Saludos,
SJ



Patrick -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 11 2004 5:38:50)

quote:

With all that said, the idea is very good, but maybe you could acomplish the same without making too much work for Simon by just having the names posted or links available to those who are willing to help out individually for the shy ones.


SJ,

That's what I have been proposing all along or something like it. Heh, I'm just the idea guy, let the techeis work out the details.

And no, you are not out of line!

Pat



Escribano -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 11 2004 8:56:49)

quote:

really a matter of "needing to practice and work things out".


Tell me about it [:D] and thanks for the feedback!



bailoro2000 -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 11 2004 11:56:00)

For what it's worth:

Every forum has a large number of "lurkers" (no offence meant, it's a generally accepted forum term) who, for reasons best known to themselves, don't post either often, or not at all. Shyness and a reluctance to appear silly are a couple of reasons for this (hey, didn't every one of us have to start somewhere loving this great art?). Some people occasionally post privately and pay compliments, occasionally criticise, but not that many of those.

It is hard work maintaining a decent forum when you constantly try to raise topics for discussion and cannot get feedback. One of the main reasons is a history of abusive idiots who have, over the years, got rid of a lot of good honest flamenco lovers and made a lot of others afraid to post. Flamenco-world forum, a virtual fountain of information and world-wide afficionados, closed down due to this. Other forums outlaw themselves in time. This problem is in the minority now with decently run forums.

The real answer is to abolish all forms of abuse or sarcasm and accept that everyone has to learn . As a non-musician I have learned an awful lot from reading posts on forums such as this. I have, however, never been afraid to ask questions and never been treated badly on the decent forums. Members need to come forward a little and join the party, because most forums are almost social clubs for like souls. The problem isn't new and I don't know if there is a solution.

This forum, as Simon remarks, is one of the most active and with a good percentage of posters. Maybe a roll-call for members to step up and introduce themselves might work (well, at least for a while ) Human nature being what it is, there is no real answer. We just keep at it, believe me, I know (((-:

Jim.



miguel -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 16 2004 8:10:18)

i find that when i go to ask a question there are already great answers in the archives.
So i dont see the point in starting a thread about something thats already covered

just my experiance
Miguel

ps Simon, i love this forum, and many thanks to you for starting it and keeping it running.[:)]



Escribano -> RE: Ask a Member (Aug. 16 2004 14:53:34)

Good for you, many overlook the Search function I work so hard to maintain[:D] Thanks for the vote of confidence - but it's not me, it's the excellent software and happy members that makes a forum work.



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