Playing on off beats (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - Playing on off beats: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=112038



Message

HolyEvil -> Playing on off beats (Jun. 29 2009 3:29:21)

Hey there guys, I've found a problem with my playing..
I find it hard to keep time if I play on the off beat..
Eg the 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 etc etc

alot of my teacher's playing style starts off with the 'and'
and alot of his phrases ends with the time and starts on the and
eg ends on 3 and starts on the 'and" after 4 and sometimes finishes at 6 and starts on the 'and' of 7..
I don't find it much of a problem when it's towards the front of the compas eg alegrias 1-6.. when it gets to finish on 8 and starts on the 'and' of beat 9 or starts on the 'and' of 9 and ends on the 'and' of 11
and he starts the music on the 'and' of 1 again. its really hard for me..

and I find it really hard to keep a beat of 1 1/2..

are there any excercises or tips to get that off beat rhythm into my system?

cheers



minordjango -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 29 2009 6:52:23)

holyevil , your the dude, man im the same , i am always waiting for an excuse to get onto this .

F.nunez cd is cool as he counts and talks of feeling the compass, rons metronome should help a little.

but maybe im working on it , is just hearing the metronome and tapping asycoronise rhythms to it , and really trying to get inside he feel of the music , , or just start playing drums , thats the way Tabla is cool , some of those dudes are Psycho



Florian -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 29 2009 8:19:14)

you mark the on beat with your foot...making it eazyer to come in on the offbeat

just like when u practice contra palmas...they mark the on beats with their feet and do palmas in the offbeats


so practice playing and just marking onbeats slowly with your foot (do it with rithm to begin with)....so when u know u need to do anything off beat u know its straight after a foot tap



n85ae -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 29 2009 10:01:39)

I find an easy way is to do a light tap with my finger on the beat, not quite a
golpe and then as I come off that do the upbeat note. Once it's programmed
in my brain, I can then generally play it without the tap. At least it works for me
to do that.


Jeff



gato -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 29 2009 10:42:45)

It's not uncommon, and actually it's up beat, down beat orientation, and the only way to get over it is to cross train on a rhythm instrument and then work those same exercises cross between the guitar back and fourth until you get it.

You might take up the cunga, or the tabla, or the snare drum, etc. Get a teacher and work with rhythm exercises that your teacher can provide or collect books and use a metronome until you get it and then practice au natural.

It's actually hard to break that orientation, and you really have to work on it for a while, otherwise forget it and continue searching for a quick fix! [:D]

It's not uncommon for music school students to study various rhythm instrumets such as the clave or snare drum, especially, or anything you may like. Since you are studying the flamenco try the cajones. The clave is nice since you can take it in your bag and go anywhere.

Once you get experianced in many various rhythms thru actual training, you might get it down instead of quitting all together. In this case as well as many others staves from books can teach you a lot. It's a sure fix, but it will take you percevierance and most of all time, and won't you be proud once you get it down!!! [;)] Studying in a curriculum would be better along with self study....
Gary



XXX -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 30 2009 0:54:15)

Playing on offbeats is just like playing off on onbeats.
Its the same thing, just a bit different.
[8|][:D]
You need a specific musical example. That will help you consolidate the rythm. Connect rythm with a melody or a chord. The more patterns you learn the more flexibility you will have. Singing is also a very good tool!



Ricardo -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 30 2009 2:15:39)

No need for taking drums or whatever, and metronme helps but wont' make it obvious at first, as you can just as easily slip off time and not beable to get back on. The simple way is to beable to keep time with your hands and foot, and SING the rhythm exactly right against the foot or hands or metronome. Actually if you use all three that helps. But if you can't sing it and stay on time, then chances are you can't play it either without going off.

Now there are some tricks for starting off beat or keeping off beats going. One trick is to learn the phrase as is but ACCENT the notes that might land on a beat. For example you have an off beat pickup note or a few of them, but the beat lands on a note in the phrase. Well you accent very strong the notes that land on the beat.

Another trick I figured out when I was a kid having problems doing lead ins with a drum break if the rhythm was a "contra", is to actually either ADD or SUBTRACT notes to complete a phrase. YOu could add notes by sticking an extra before the contra note you are supposed to start on, the added note obviously starts on the beat and gives you a reference for the rest. After you master that phrase you simple leave off the start note, but IMAGINE you played it. THat helped me alot. And of course you can do the opposite. Leave off the pick up notes and START the phrase on the down beat note, whatever it was. Later after you master the entire phrase you add in the pick up note or notes that you cut, and you see it is easy because the rest of the phrase you practiced all lines up and feel "right".

And another trick is like Florian discussed using the foot tap as actually part of the rhythmic phrase. For example you need to play a long line of contra beats, but lose the time. Well if you use your foot to "fill up" the phrase you can feel the contras better. For example: This phrase "que toma....que toma....que toma..." The accent or beat is on the "to..." the "que" and the "ma" are the contras or off beats. So you play it like this: note-foot-note....note-foot-note.....note-foot-note.... and as you speed up to the proper tempo you become aware that even those you got the foot going in between some notes...all the "note" sounds must be perfectly even and inline.

Hope that helps.

Ricardo



n85ae -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jun. 30 2009 5:39:04)

Actually I've heard Ricardo, Todd, etc. in the past refering to feeling the groove
of the piece and for a long time I didn't quite get it. But I think once you learn the
notes, and then get a feel for the groove of the piece you'll not really have to think
about it so much, as your internal clock will tell you when to play it so it fits where
it wants to be.

In Ricardo's post, his 'extra' note is basically what I do with my silent finger tap.
I use it as a filler note basically.

Jeff



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jul. 1 2009 9:03:32)

Double the tempo of the downbeat in your mind...... Now...... every other one is the contratiempo.



gshaviv -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jul. 1 2009 21:08:43)

Playing offbeat is definitely one of the more difficult things to catch in the rhythm, once you do though, it becomes second nature, you don't understand why you ever had difficulties to do it.

What I used to do is tap with my foot on the beat, then every time my foot is up, is the offbeat.



HolyEvil -> RE: Playing on off beats (Jul. 2 2009 1:18:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

Double the tempo of the downbeat in your mind...... Now...... every other one is the contratiempo.


hi there Jason
I don't undestand what you mean, do you mean to double up the tempo all the time?
Meaning playing @ 80 bpm will become 160 bpm?

Cheers



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET