Bulerias a la rondena?

Bulerias a la rondena? (Full Version)

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Wannabee -> Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 21 2009 21:44:04)
Cool I found this video today I think it's a great idea. I wish I were better at learning stuff by ear, I think I would even be able to learn this.

HemeolaMan -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 22 2009 13:22:16)
good times. that looks like fun. side note, i really hate that tone lol. i like the piece tho!

Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 22 2009 15:20:22)
quote: I think it's a great idea. He's not the first person to do this. A guy from Oz did a great version of Buleria in Rodena key. Rodena tuning adds an aspect of introspection to buleria. Who knows maybe it will develop into a standard palo.

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 22 2009 16:06:50)
nice..i like the piece it would be even nicer if he used the acctual sound of the video rather than a studio recording that wasent 100% in synk with his video[8\|] the fingers are hardly moving yet hes got the biggest , loudest sound in the world

Wannabee -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 22 2009 17:50:11)
I'm not sure about that, the camera work seems pretty bad in some spots (especially during the intro) so you can't see what he's actually doing. But when he starts "a tempo" his fingers seem to be in time...at least to me. You're right about the sound though, it does sound like it's been processed.

jg7238 -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 23 2009 18:55:36)
el nino de pura does a buleria in rondena key called galope corto. i'll post it in the upload section.

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 23 2009 23:18:51)
quote: I'm not sure about that, the camera work seems pretty bad in some spots (especially during the intro) so you can't see what he's actually doing. But when he starts "a tempo" his fingers seem to be in time...at least to me. I dont know..maybe u right...maybe the big unrealistic sound just makes it seem that way cause it was overprocessed...so its eazy to assume it dosent come from the same time..since the force that he hits everything with and the volume that comes out dosent match still its a nice piece

ToddK -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 0:20:30)
Florian, You are confusing a "very well recorded" sound with an "Overprocessed" sound. I dont think thats playback, i think thats live, just with a studio quality recording. That is a well recorded guitar, that's it. There is some reverb on it. its not overly compressed. It is not overly EQ'd either. I do not hear any big boosts in bass or treble anywhere. ITs just a nice sounding guitar through nice transparent microphones. This guy doesnt have mind blowing technique, but he knows how to get a very nice tone. To my eyes and ears, the look of his hands matches the sound perfectly. You and Doitsun seem to have this idea that there is some kind of "Magic dust proccessor" in a studio that makes you sound "Huge". Trust me, there's no such thing. There is great proof of this on Ricardo's CD. I recorded it myself. Listen to his guitar on that CD. It sounds REALLY good. Way better than this guy, for sure. You know why?? Because Ricardo knows how to get a GREAT sound from his Conde. The mics were in a good place. The mics are of mid-grade quality. Nothing special like you'd find in Paco or Vicente's studio. Ricardo's CD guitar sound uses extremely minimal proccessing. I had some compression going on his guitar in the early stages, but he kept talking me into taking most of it off, cause he wanted to keep alot of the "Soft to Loud" dynamics" intact. So there is virtually no compression. We boosted the bass just a bit, after A/B'ing it with a Gerardo Nunez CD. Ricardo also bugged me to back off more and more on the reverb, so there is only just enough reverb. Less than on most modern flamenco recordings. That's it!!!!!! No special bells or whistles. No big studio tricks. Just Ricardo playing through 2 Shure mics, in my 10x12' crappy sounding basement, with mattress foam on the walls. So please, dont go on thinking everytime you hear a great sound, it must be "Heavily Proccessed". Its just not true. Overly, and/or Heavily Proccessed guitars more often than not, actually sound really BAD. TK

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 0:48:22)
If you say todk..ok il take you word for it but i heard people like david cerreduela and others play right in front of me to me and in real life noone sounds like that...and there can be no question aabout this guys skill or abilities to get sound out of their guitars sound procesing and recording plays a huge part..otherwise u wouldnt have studios with tousand dollar equipment...every studio would just have 2 shures and a computer an example ...in the challenge your alegrias was greate, deserved to win but what do u think really made you stand out in between 7 other great Alegrias ? and u all played the same number ...do u think it was the way u played it alone ? i mean i am not trying to take anything away from you at all...like i said, i think u deserved to win...and i am still 100% behind that but to say that sound is not important .....its very important when trying to make an impresssion... maybe you right maybe this video wasent compresssed...i am not an expert at hearing what eq and plugins technique was used by someone just by hearing it...but his recording made a huge difference so much so that it stood out to me and made me say what i said, if i only heard an audio i wouldnt have said a word but because i got the video to see it ..looks unrealistic, makes it obvious that the sound was way bigger then the playing.. when u compare the force used and the volume that comes out..i watched jasons challenge video and the forced put into every note matches the sound and volume that comes out everytime...thats what i am trying to say...when u see someone tickle the string and the sound comes out like he used a hammer on the string i start to wonder good sound takes u that extra step...so dont tell me that sound is not important it is very very important...and yes there are magical tricks that the average joe blow dosent know otherwise there wouldnt be a sound engenering schol or title I mean i watched doits video of the alegrias and it looked greate..looked like he used good force and everything was beautiful but unfortunateley for him that didnt come across that way in the audio...had he known a trick or two about recording and processsing and compresssing and addding perfect reverb it might have been a different story..i was blown away at how good he played and how i didnt notice it in the audio so to say that sounds dosent make a difference it unealistic amigo [:)] here at the forum is everything ...since none of us see or hear eachother live if sound is not important and its all bout the player why didnt u record your challenge entri through the camera mic ?[:)] i know they less hustle and eazyer to set up

ToddK -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:07:39)
quote: good sound takes u that extra step...so dont tell me that sound is not important it is very very important...and yes there are magical tricks that the average joe blow dosent know otherwise there wouldnt be a sound engenering schol or title no, there are no magic buttons or effects that make you sound better than you realy are. There are only "great skills" Which is why i won the challenge. My playing. Not the recording quality. i cant even believe you have the balls to say such a thing about the challenge and my entry. i used a 57 and a cheap firewire soundcard (400$usd for mic and card) The sound is clear cause my room is quiet, and my playing is strong and clear. Jason, Ricardo, Grisha, or anybody with good ears and some skills will back me up on that statement anyday. Stop making excuses for why you dont sound the way you want. Its not your gear. Its you. That is some straight up truth for you. You're welcome. You can decide to change the way play and/or sound anytime you want. Look what i was able to accomplish. Hard work. No short cuts or magic buttons.

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:13:11)
quote: There are only "great skills" so why dosent everyone record theyr comercial albums in their bedrooms ?[:)] quote: Stop making excuses for why you dont sound the way you want. Its not your gear. Its you. That is some straight up truth for you. You're welcome. I dont know why u always wanna make this about us, it had nothing to do with you, i was expressing an opinion on sound...wasent even disrespecting the guy or you but ...ok, have it your way...lets dance again princes [:)] dont you worry about me amigo ever since i got the new guitar i am very happy with the way i sound [;)] theres been no more complaints from me... ul have to wait till the next challenge to hear it...wich btw u are welcome to join...anytime btw..i have noticed everyone uploaded their alegria videos....everyone but you ...when do i get to see the "great skills" ? I have seen a few people asking you in a few ocasions but you overlooked it...dont you think that since you u won, u should ...we should have seen it straight away..and considerind the extraordinary channge of technique and the amount of time u did it in ...u should have posted it..it would just be inspiring to see...and ofcourse as to clear and disbelif anyone might dare have... not me ofcourse..i belive you [:)]...but i would have posted the video.... and ofcourse to show me that only skills matter you will do it on the camera mic for me ..

ToddK -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:29:09)
quote: so why dosent everyone record theyr comercial albums in their bedrooms ? quote: so why dosent everyone record theyr comercial albums in their bedrooms ? Many people do!!! Ricardo did his in a basement. Cant you read?? I will post a video when i have time. I severely neglected my medical transcription studies, and my time with my fiance and my soon to be stepson, and my job, to work on the challenge. As soon as i finished my recording, i went back to catching up on my life. When im finished with my midterms, i will make a video, which will be because i feel like doing it. Not because of pressure from you, or to prove anything to anybody. I've already proved myself way beyond expectation. You bullied me into it, you quit, and you lost. You have to live with that. End of story. Bye bye[:D] TK

Florian -> [Deleted] (Jun. 24 2009 1:34:14)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 24 2009 1:36:07

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:35:30)
really if u could do it ...like it was in the rules in 1 go..it should take u about 6 minutes to do it...shouldnt chew up too much more of your time...how much longher do you need to practice it to play it the way you should have always been playing it...in 1 go 2 mins to set up the camera...10 minutes to record it mate the posting of the video by the winner was in the rules ..we all looked the other way because none of us wanted to insult you or accuse you of anything or start arguing with you but if u got no problem doing that to others ...i gues i had to ask bye [:D]

ToddK -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:43:29)
quote: really if u could do it ...like it was in the rules 1 go..it should take u about 6 minutes to do it yeah i guess it will take about 8 months to make it look like it sounded mate the posting of the video by the winner was in the rules bye If a video was required, i would'nt have won dummy[:D] You are a very sore loser Flo, just as i knew you would be. Sad. Im off to work now. SeeYa![:)]

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 1:48:43)
Perhaps Doit could clear it up for Einstein over here [:D] the video wasent used for the scoring ...was used after for backing up the score so that nobody had any questions regarding any of the entries everybody knew and did everybody but the winner...the 1 guy that had the most to proove Doit bring that 100% brute honesty u always bring ...have u not wondered why everyone but the winner uploaded the video straight away ? considering the amazing change of technique And i am not a sore loser man, you are a terrible winner, i was the first to congratulate you and i did it with an absolute open heart and honest...u deserved to win , i was acctualy happy for you and inspired, i had not enough words to describe of how impressed i was with your achivement....from what i heard...i did so thinking i will see the video also because i thought what u did was unbelivable but the fact that u were pretending to not even see when someone asked you if they can see the video and werent even replying, i was surrprised......that is precisely why u should have uploaded the video...because of how unbelivable it was that you beat people that have been playing with their fingers half of lifetime.....compared to what 4 months that u have been doing it for ? at this rate another 2 months u should be the best flamenco guitarrist in the world ...i am sure i dont need to explain to you why a video should have been more important to you than anyone else there...and the video is not another thing...it was part of the same thing you should have done I would have glaadly let my curiosity die off unanswered but there u go starting on me again beeing an insulting ashole for no reason [:)] i can be a bigger ashole back until you walked in everyone was just discussing it without insults or getting personal..we might have been disagreeing but we did so respectfully to eachother and not getting personal on eachother

TAKITAKATA -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 2:44:25)
We want the video !We want the video[:D][:D]

sorin popovici -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 3:03:05)
very cool bulerias. Didn't hear a buleria with this kind of tuning til now. Thanks for the el nino de pura tune jg7238. Made my day [;)]

henrym3483 -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 4:20:13)
ah come on now flo, no need for that, it was a fair competition.

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 4:25:28)
quote: ah come on now flo, no need for that, it was a fair competition. u got every reason to be polite and tacful...just like i was 1 day ago..but since then he decided to get personal with me again so...i can tell him exactly what i think too and u are probably right ...there was also no need for him to be an asole truth be told tho....there must be a reason why Jason asked for videos on his challenge...just like there was one why everyone else uploaded theirs...also the same reason why it was mentioned in the rules....if theres no reason for all this stuff why does everyone keep asking for it...if anyone wants to make me the bad guy for asking what everyone else was just as courious about or what shouldnt even needed to be asked for because it should have allreaday been there.. fine, i got a good enough reason...he got personal with me others have asked and he pretended he didnt see it if toodk knew how to be a good winner i would have left my question slide, i congratulated the guy, i was acctualy very pleased for him...but if hes gonna act like this when i was beeing enouraging to him...then i am gonna ask him the question that was in my mind the second i noticed him pretend he didnt see others asking it...but i didnt wanna cause i didnt wanna start with him again..i keep trying my best to put those days behind but the guy just dosent let go like a litlle kid but sorry il just back off..i am the bad guy again because i am better at beeing an ashole ...after he starts it on me..i got no problem whatsoever beeing an ahole to people who are beeing asholes to me first...thatl never change and at the end of the day i didnt even insult the guy or gotten personal with him, i politely asked him if i could see the video ..just like many others i am sure are dying to see Anyway.. i am out of this argument

Arash -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 4:45:15)
I personally like videos with good sound quality. Simply because i enjoy listening to them more than a video with a 5$ PC mic and terribly recorded sound. Of course, it influences the listener. No question about that. Even if someone says that i doesn't, it is a lie. Everyone is influenced by it unconsiously. But: if you are a bad player and not able to get a good flamenco sound out of your guitar, the best recording gear won't help you out. This is also a fact. So, for the best result and best response from audience, you need a combination of both. Good technique and good recording. About this video: he is not the best guitarist and the technique is good but nothing to leave you with open mouth. Of course, here it is also the sound quality which influences you. But it is not playback. He is playing it, but the sound is recorded seperately. But, what i don't like is when blaming someone why he trys to record with a good quality. Well, why not? You could also say: a bad recording with a bad mic makes a player looking more bad than he actually is, because when you are in the same room with the player, your ears (which are the BEST Mics in the world) hear a MUCH better sound, than a video with cheap sound quality, because cheap mics decrease the REAL sound quality and quality of the player and the guitar too. ----- Here is an example of Andreas Kessler, also recorded with good sound quality and some reverb, etc. But i bet he also has good flamenco tone (even without professional recording). the end result fits, everything is good.

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 5:31:26)
quote: A video would be extremely welcome beside of the audio. Or the audio from the video together with the audio. It will be very interesting and great fun to see the players themselves performing the piece. It could also used as proof if somebody tries to cheat with cut and paste the audio! ;.) ----------- Rules At first: The piece have to be played at once. No cut and paste is allowed! Its just allowed to engineer the sound a little bit if you have a cheap mic. Professional sound-processing i.e. adding a bass or whatever, is not allowed. Using a good mic is recommended becuase the sound-quality could affect the judges. As far as I can tell the video wasn't required. Would be really cool and shouldn't be too hard for you Todd but don't worry about I'm sure you want to do other things at this point. No one is going to strip you of your medal [:D]

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 5:32:45)
quote: ORIGINAL: Florian toodk [:D]

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 5:41:01)
quote: It could also used as proof if somebody tries to cheat with cut and paste the audio! ;.) considerring the incrediblle never before heard of change of technique in 4 months that should be x4 important in his case ...to silence people who like proof..expecially if this individual wins ahead people who have been playing with fingers half their lifes and expecially if one of them just happens to be ricardo shoot me..now...i am courious [:)] i wasent before today but now i am asking...aand dont even try to pretend that it hasent crossed your mind that you might be asked to provide proof...expecially in your extraordinary circumstances

Escribano -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 5:53:29)
quote: shoot me..now...i am courious i wasent before today but now i am asking I am interested too but.... what if Todd has not changed his style? Either way he wins.

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 5:58:24)
quote: I am interested too but.... what if Todd has not changed his style? Either way he wins thats absoluteley correct...unlesss. he started with his fingers to proove a point...realised that his fingers speed wasent keeping up because generaly people dont get picado like tomatito after 4 or 6 months of practicing it with fingers but no way he was gonna come out and lose to my challenge out of pride so decided to cut and paste here and there or record litlle bitty parts at the time.....which was all against the rules lets face it if anyone could do it well, it would be a guy who knows what hes doing with sound thats also a possibility 50/50 ofcourse that might not be the case....thats why there was talk of videos (everyone involved knew that they might get asked to provide video)...u guys can be polite and take his word for it all u like but him talking down to me gave me a licence to ask exactly what i wanna know...without needing to talk down to him I dont know one way or the other..all i know is that every single other challenger uploaded their video and the winner the guy who had the most to proove x4 for him didnt...and then pretended not to see it when some asked him and if i see the video and my curiosity is satisfied i will be the first guy here again to eat my words and congratulate him on the most incredible ...never before heard off technique change in the history of technique changes

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 7:03:38)
heres another proposition oh greate champion who is above my head..i havent practiced this alegrias at all since i needed to drop out...but i kind of learned the first 2 falsetas... in the first couple of days when i was planning to be in i need 3 days to get it fluent again il be more then happy to meet you back here 3 days from now( a week is better but i am not fast..whatever u think)..u with your video...with video sound and me with mine so u can show me how superrior players like u can only look down on nobodys like me [:)] lets do that greate champion...3 days...right back here only the first 2 falsetas ...u should have no problem kicking my ass since u alrready won and had 6 months at this and u ofcourse playd this all in one go..first 2 falsetas should take u 2 seconds and then u can lough at me for the rest of your life since u are the guy with the unbelivable technique change in a few months and superior champion [:)] anymore head start and every advantage at winning this i couldnt give you..u just dont know when to shut up and be the winner i dont wanna leave you on the fire alone...i am right there with you amigo i would have to do alot of practice to get it back but i will do this to shut you up of how superior you think u are Theres no backing out, i got a gig on friday...but f*ck it il die before il back out again...show me how superior u think u are...show me how i couldnt get the sound before on a crappy guitar that u can because u are incrediblle...and i was just making excuses

Arash -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 7:21:15)
i can't believe this story is starting again. and we all know already how this will end we have experienced it about 100 times in the past.....i really can't believe it. after all the positive comments you gave eachother and all that.....

Florian -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 7:24:11)
well neither can i mate...expecially after i was beeing encouraging and complimentative to him when he won.....but enough is enough is enough [:)] it was always always coming down to this and if it dosent end here it will come back again next month and the one after and 4 months from now again...just like i said it would 5 months ago no more back and foward arguing...i am asking for the video ...and if he wants to go head to head with me on a video lets do that...il do anything to shut this egomaniac up 3 days ..theres absoluteley no chance for me to back out first this time...todk wanna rub my face in it...heres your chance on a platter

Estevan -> RE: Bulerias a la rondena? (Jun. 24 2009 7:32:48)
quote: but enough is enough is enough ..and we've all had more than enough of this bull$hite a long time ago. Things were going so well, I can't believe you're starting it up again. [:'(] quote: and if it dosent end here It's up to you to let it end here. Just LEAVE IT ALONE.

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