singer versus finger (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 3:05:33)

No it's not a rude post! [:D]

I'm interested to know if anyone here pronounces "singer" with a hard "g" as in the word "finger".

I was listening to a Paco Peña interview and noticed that he did.

I think Paul McCartney does too.

You never hear it in Scotland, so I was wondering which regions do and if it's considered "correct" or "lazy" speaking where you are?

cheers,

Ron



at_leo_87 -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 5:50:36)

i pronounce it "sing-er."

that's how everyone from where i am pronounces it. if anybody said it like, "sin-ger," it'd be assumed that that person learned english as a second language.

which way is correct if the lazy way became the norm and the correct way makes you stand out?



Escribano -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 5:55:06)

Liverpool accent Ron.



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 5:58:21)

Anthony,

It's more like "sing" + "ger" rather than "sin" + "ger", with the "ger" as in "Gertrude".
I can't remember ever hearing an American pronounce it this way.

It could maybe be a Liverpool/Lancashire thing?

Edit: Just Saw your post Simon. Thanks.

Wonder where Paco Peña picked it up.

Actually in Colloquial Scottish we rhyme singer with finger....but that's because we drop the hard "g" in "finger". [:D]
But it's not considered "proper" speech, like in a job interview etc.


cheers,

Ron



at_leo_87 -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 6:15:13)

quote:


It's more like "sing" + "ger" rather than "sin" + "ger", with the "ger" as in "Gertrude".


you're right. that's what i meant.

like i said before, i think it's common in people who learned english as a second language. they see the way something is spelled and over do it trying to pronounce it correctly. they know finger sounds like fing-ger so they just take that logic to the word singer too.

i had a friend who once when he ordered icecream, talked very fast until he hit the word "raspberry." then he took his time to pronounce, "rasPpp...Berree." everyone looked at him, laughed, and said, "you mean 'raz-berry?"



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 6:46:31)

quote:

had a friend who once when he ordered icecream, talked very fast until he hit the word "raspberry." then he took his time to pronounce, "rasPpp...Berree." everyone looked at him, laughed, and said, "you mean 'raz-berry?"


A French guy (a language lecturer actually) said that this is what made English so difficult to learn as you cannot depend on "rules" as there are so many exceptions.
So you really have to learn each word at a time with regard to spelling, pronunciation and meaning.

eg.... bough, tough, though, thought, through...etc

along with...bow or bow (and arrow), taught or taut (tight), through or threw....etc

It really is a MESS!! [:D]

cheers,

Ron



Andy Culpepper -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 8:24:57)

Ever been to Long-gisland?

Or New Jersey for that matter...



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 10:44:20)

quote:

Ever been to Long-gisland?

Or New Jersey for that matter...


Are these the folk that say stuff like...

Toity-Toid Street and Poik (33rd St and Park) and stuff like Hoisses and Dwaugs for Horses and Dogs?

I love that stuff! [:D]

cheers,

Ron



XXX -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 11:16:19)

I cant help you with your "fingering" problem Ron... but what i absolutely hate is when germans pronounce the "th" or even other(!!) letters in the same way [8|]
When i was in school a girl used to speak like zat in an extrim wey. Puh, zat woz horribel! I neva unzer-stuud watt she zaid, but ze teet-tcha had nozinck aganzt zis.
Sorry, I am militantly against this accent, zet is foa shua. [:D]



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 11 2009 11:39:42)

quote:

When i was in school a girl used to speak like zat in an extrim wey. Puh, zat woz horribel! I neva unzer-stuud watt she zaid, but ze teet-tcha had nozinck aganzt zis.
Sorry, I am militantly against this accent, zet is foa shua.


[:D][:D][:D]

In ALL the black and white war movies from the 50's I saw as a kid, ALL ze Germans speak ziss vey!

"Ze Var iss over for you Tommy....van valse move ...und you vill be shot!"

I thought this was the actual national language until I got older! [:D][:D]

cheers,

Ron



NormanKliman -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 12 2009 2:46:15)

quote:

I'm interested to know if anyone here pronounces "singer" with a hard "g" as in the word "finger".


I don't pronounce them the same way nor do most people I know, but I've heard them both pronounced the "lazy" way.

In my opinion, it doesn't sound good to pronounce "finger" the lazy way (should be a bit more of the g in there), it's acceptable in "singer," and "sing-ger" just sounds uptight and pretentious.

Just in case you're interested and didn't know this, what's really going on there is that the "n" is being pronounced with the back of the tongue, rather than the tip, because of the following letter. There's a technical term for it that I don't remember right now, but pronunciation changes like that, and sometimes consonants are affected.

Although Spanish is widely held (especially by Spaniards) to be written as it's pronounced and vice-versa, it's also subject to this kind of deformation. For example, the n in "ángel" is pronounced with the back of the tongue, and some people even pronounce the n in "pan" that way, so it sounds like "pang."

The sound has its own phonoetic symbol: ŋ

How's that for sounding uptight and pretentious?[:D]



kozz -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 12 2009 3:01:58)

quote:

The sound has its own phonoetic symbol: ŋ


hahaha,
I received this message notification on my iphone and the symbol looked like a golpe sign...that's pretentious [:D]



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 12 2009 6:05:53)

quote:

How's that for sounding uptight and pretentious?


Not at all Norman.
The French guy I spoke about earlier was actually my boss and was a Lecturer in Phonetics/Linguistics.
I looked after all the research and teaching equipment.
So I kind of developed an interest in speech and dialects/accents.

The use of finger without the hard g is as far as I know a purely Scottish thing and would sound very odd pronounced like this by a conventional English speaker.
However don't some "country" Texans speak a little like this?....eg

"Ah say, git that goddam fing-er out there boy....ah need some extry hepp over here.."[:D]

cheers,

Ron



Andy Culpepper -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 12 2009 8:35:41)

quote:

Toity-Toid Street and Poik (33rd St and Park) and stuff like Hoisses and Dwaugs for Horses and Dogs?


Ruon, no dalling you've guot it uall wruongg. Do fish lips.




Anyhow yall don't know whatchall talkinbout with this Flamaaango sheeit til yall come down to Teexas in check out the Mariachi bayand they got down at that Mexican plice. Yee-haw!

[:D][:D]



NormanKliman -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 13 2009 2:44:08)

quote:

However don't some "country" Texans speak a little like this?....eg

Hi Ron,

Oh, hell yes! [:)] Some black Americans, too. In my last post, I was going to say something about the relationship between "lazy" speech patterns and undereducated communities, but that's a delicate and complicated subject, and I wouldn't want to be misinterpreted as defending elitism or racism (or even hard or soft g-ism for that matter, just to be on the safe side...[:D])



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 13 2009 12:25:15)

Scottish "Star Trek" [:D]



cheers,

Ron



Andy Culpepper -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 14 2009 14:07:32)

quote:

Scottish "Star Trek"



Couldn't understand a word[&:]

I've heard that in Italy they have a show where people from Sicily call in and Northern Italians try to figure out what they're saying [:D]
I think they could do the same thing in the US. It's amazing how the same words written can sound so different in different accents.
I think it would be funny to get everyone on the Foro in a room speaking English to each other and see if we could still communicate [:D]



Estevan -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 15 2009 12:36:57)

quote:

It could maybe be a Liverpool/Lancashire thing?

Edit: Just Saw your post Simon. Thanks.

It's Scouse, and Midlands too.

These guys were heard saying "sing-ger":

"We've known for a long time that foreign fighters, many with thick Birmingham accents, have been recruited to fight against us for the Taliban. Some of the linguistics specialists have picked up West Midland and Manchester accents too."



Estevan -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 15 2009 12:41:55)

quote:

some people even pronounce the n in "pan" that way, so it sounds like "pang."

Norman, is that how they talk in the Cadiz area?

I think that's a regional thing. It's noticeable in Caribbean Spanish; they seem to say things like "eng la canciong".

I've heard people from the coast of Peru talk somewhat like that too, whereas in the highlands the accent is very different, and reflects the pronunciation of an an earlier period of Spanish, as well as the influence of indigenous languages.



Ron.M -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 15 2009 12:54:07)

Hi Estevan,

I guess a lot of young men just enjoy fighting.

I certainly know that from growing up in Glasgow!

If you weren't in a street gang then you joined the Army and could happily kick the sh1t out of people without going to jail.

A lot of the Old Timers from WWII still can't get away from it and say it was the best times of their lives regardless of the terror and hardship.

Just human nature I suppose and when the country needs these kind of guys then we send 'em in 'cos we don't want to do it ourselves and cheer them and pin a medal on 'em when (and if) they get back.

And then when the threat has gone away and we can all get back to normal and earn a good living and live in a nice house, kick them out on the dole or to sleep on the streets after their "nightcap" of a bottle of cheap sherry or dose of smack to quell the flashbacks.

My thoughts, I suppose, come from the memories of a young (26) English guy (called Simon actually) I knew who joined the Company I worked for, just after the Falklands victory.

They gave him a job as a general handyman/dogsbody.

He was on the Sir Galahad when it was hit and when drunk, would always go on about watching his injured pals slowly give up and go under in the water while they waited to be rescued.

He was more or less permanently drunk all the time I knew of him.

Last I heard he'd been picked up by the Police for being drunk and disorderly and he was eventually sacked from the Company.

I have no idea what ever happened to him after.


Just normal civilization I suppose.[;)]

cheers,

Ron



Estevan -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 15 2009 15:31:09)

You may find this interesting, it has recorded examples of various accents:

Sounds Familiar? Accents and Dialects of the UK



NormanKliman -> RE: singer versus finger (Jun. 15 2009 23:28:23)

Hi Estevan,

quote:

Norman, is that how they talk in the Cadiz area?


Not really. I used to hear "pang" once in a while in Madrid, but I got the vague and unfounded impression that it might have come from one of Spain's northern communities (Castilla-León). Definitely a "village" thing. Then again, when most people say "pan con..." they're probably going to pronounce that first n as /ŋ/, just because of that c in the next word. Fussier speakers (anyone familiar with the actor José Sazatornil?) would not approve.[:D]

quote:

whereas in the highlands the accent is very different, and reflects the pronunciation of an an earlier period of Spanish


Yeah, I heard that in places where people come and go (commerce, maritime traffic, etc.) the language is more likely to change, and in places that are hard to reach (mountain villages) the language is less likely to evolve. The example I heard was that in Puerto Rico the Spanish is more modern, but in parts of Mexico they use words and constructions that go back centuries. I don't think that what I read was a very reliable source of information, but that always made sense to me.



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