What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (Full Version)

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a_arnold -> What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 6:06:12)

This is the laundry scene from Carlos Saura's "El Amor Brujo".

I think it feels like a zapateado, but there is some disagreement within our group. Anybody?



Tony



Andy Culpepper -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 7:28:22)

It sounds like a Villancico (Flamenco christmas song).



Estevan -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 7:47:43)

Tanguillos?



edguerin -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 9:26:46)

quote:

Tanguillos?


I think you're right.

But:
quote:

It sounds like a Villancico

My "Enciclopedia de los Estilos Flamencos de la A a la Z" states:
Villancicos are not characterized by any particular melody or rhythm but rather by "putting" popular Villancico-letras (text) to the "adequate" flamenco stile, be it tangos, tanguillos or bulerias, any palo that can be adapted ...



Estevan -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 10:25:23)

quote:

quote:

Tanguillos?


I think you're right.


The accompaniment pattern 1 2 3 4 5 - , 1 2 3 4 5 -
(or: 1 + 2 + 3 , 1 + 2 + 3 , ...actually both at the same time) is typical of 'modern' tanguillos.

And yes, a villancico could sound like that, but not with those words![;)]



Andy Culpepper -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 10:32:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan


And yes, a villancico could sound like that, but not with those words![;)]


Quite true...my first thought was actually tanguillos when I heard the rhythm but the melody reminded me so much of this:




Estevan -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 12:21:15)

Yes it's one of those generic / archetypal / transferable / adaptable melodies. I thought it sounded familiar too, and it took some time to realize that it reminded me of (no, really...) - same melody (at 1:17-1:33) different rhythm.



bursche -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 28 2009 12:46:20)

This can definitely be played as a Tanguillo.



a_arnold -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 30 2009 5:38:42)

Thanks for responding, you guys.

There IS a villancico in el amor brujo, but I don't think his one is it.

I know that zapateado is in the Tanguillos rhythm family, and my old (puro) teacher taught me a zapateado, but I never learned Tanguillos, so it would probably be easy for me to confuse the two.

Can anyone recommend a youtube of tanguillos that is really typical or representative? Or maybe explain the difference?

Tony



mark indigo -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 30 2009 11:01:29)

quote:

my old (puro) teacher taught me a zapateado, but I never learned Tanguillos, so it would probably be easy for me to confuse the two.

Can anyone ....... explain the difference?


great question, i'd like some info on that too!



XXX -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 30 2009 11:50:49)

I think Zapateado is, or evolved from, the footwork of Tanguillos...
like Escobilla in Alegria.



edguerin -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 31 2009 9:12:30)

[8|]
Tanguillos is a Tango from Cadiz, which used to be sung by the Carnaval choirs. The term "tanguillos" evolved around 1944 to differenciate it from the Tangos flamencos.
Rhythmically it's a superposition of 6x8, 3x4 and 2x4 (Paco's "Casilda" is a good example of modern tanguillos, that have become extremely popular).

The Zapateado, originally an old Spanish dance from the 16th century, later became any passage within a danced palo in which footwork was used (i.e. it wasn't restricted to any one palo).

Nowadays the Zapateado has become a form of it's own: never sung, it's a mix of the melodic structure of Alegrias and the rhythm of tanguillos.

Hope this helps



Adam -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 31 2009 13:43:25)

Hmmm.... doesn't sound like a zapateado to me! Doesn't sound like a tanguillos either but then I don't have a great feel yet for what a tanguillos sounds like :P No, say, Grand Unified Theory of Tanguilos [;)] But I guess a lot of people here have that issue.

So can people who do know this as tanguillos recognize this song as one?



Andy Culpepper -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 31 2009 13:59:13)

No one ever said the composer for this film was necessarily working within strict Flamenco palos. This might not be any of the above, just an Andalusian folk melody put to a 3/4 time with new words. In a lot of Saura's movies I've heard stuff that didn't really sound like Flamenco, maybe more Spanish classical or folk type stuff.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (May 31 2009 14:01:21)

Tanguillos is basically a fast Tientos in a major key, Zapateado is something totally different.



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 31 2009 16:17:48)

[Deleted by Admins]



XXX -> RE: What palo is this (from El Amor Brujo)? (Jun. 1 2009 2:10:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

The Zapateado, originally an old Spanish dance from the 16th century, later became any passage within a danced palo in which footwork was used (i.e. it wasn't restricted to any one palo).

Nowadays the Zapateado has become a form of it's own: never sung, it's a mix of the melodic structure of Alegrias and the rhythm of tanguillos.

Hope this helps


I thought Zapateado were two things: 1. the palo 2. any fast footwork section (not restricted to a palo). As a palo it comes from the footwork of Tanguillos, and as you say shares the same compas. The melodic structure can also be an interpreted differently nowadays, so i wouldnt use that in a definition. I didnt made up the Zapateado-Tanguillos connection, im sure i ve read about Tanguillos and Zapateado on this forum or a webpage. The search function would be worth GOLD if it would work [:'(]

edit: but the google search works! [:D][;)]
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=87589&tmode=1&smode=1&p=1



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