*Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
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- - - *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions*: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=106369



Message

at_leo_87 -> *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:13:23)

PLEASE refrain from commenting until ALL the judges have given their scores and remarks.

Buenos dias, friends.

Here are the submissions for the Beginner's Solea Challenge.

There are five in total.

JUDGES:
Jason
Florian
Ron.M
Doitsujin
Ricardo
Kate
Pimientito


PLEASE refrain from commenting until ALL the judges have given their scores and remarks.



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:21:29)

Tally
1/5



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:24:27)

Flynn
2/5



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:27:27)

Barney
3/5



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:29:20)

Mugsy
4/5



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:30:38)

Chesney
5/5



Ailsa -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:45:21)

quote:

JUDGES:
Jason
Florian
Ron.M
Doitsujin
Ricardo
Kate

Don't forget Pimientito, who also kindly agreed to judge!!



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 0:48:32)

quote:


Don't forget Pimientito, who also kindly agreed to judge!!


Thank you, Ailsa. I've added him to the list.

That is all of the submissions.

Judges, you may begin! Good luck to the challengers!



Ron.M -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 1:54:36)

OK here are my thoughts... (remember I'm not a teacher or a pro [:-])


Tally

Technique 7
Rhythm 7
Aire 7

TOTAL 21

I liked the confidence at the start...it's a pity you didn't keep that feel going all the way through.
I think it's pretty accurate playing overall, if not a little "plodding", but then again, accurate practise is much better than something played fast and sloppy.
Technical difficulties made you stutter on the rhythm a bit at 0:29 and you kind of let it lapse a bit at 1:16.
You'd probably just get away with saying you were "stretching" it a bit. [;)]
The rasgueados get a bit weak in places, but in general no major flaws and practising what you're doing can only make you better IMO.
Good work.






Flynn

Technique 8
Rhythm 8
Aire 8

TOTAL 24

I liked the sound of this one. Hard to criticise much.
If this was played faster it would sound pro IMO.
Ole!





Barney

Technique 5
Rhythm 6
Aire 5

TOTAL 16

A bit shy and hesitant, but I think this is just due to the need for more practise on technique.
This is making you stutter a bit on the rhythm in the difficult parts.
Overall pretty good though.




Mugsy

Technique 8
Rhythm 7
Aire 6

TOTAL 21


Pretty good technique and tone, but the rhythm is a bit too loose IMO.
Playing exactly the same with a metronome and tapping your foot would sort this out though.
Some very nice thumb work!
Good job!





Chesney


Technique 7
Rhythm 6
Aire 6

TOTAL 19


Rhythm is fluctuating a bit, I think because you are playing a bit faster than you can at this stage.
Rasgueados need some work to build up strength and confidence.
Overall no major flaws. You can only improve with time.



Good show by everyone having the guts to upload their stuff!

The fast thumb part proved tricky for nearly everyone and is worth practicing just by itself as it is quite a classic ending, especially in the old school solea.

Rasgueados always need work and practise for clarity, even-ness and strength...even amongst advanced players!

Anyway, lets see what the pro teachers think!

Ole to all and thanks for taking part!


cheers,


Ron



Pimientito -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 4:22:32)

Wow, this is always so tough and much closer in terms of overall level this time.

Ok here are the scores and comments

1. TALLY
Technique 7
Compas 8
Aire 6

SCORE 21

This was played very strongly and confidently. Your compas is pretty good and I like your use of golpe. The thumb is good and so are your rasgeos. Technically and rhythmically you are well on the way. My main criticism is the aire. Your playing sounds a little wooden and mechanical partly due to slowing everything way down. Your attention to the technical detail is good and with time the feeling will come. Relax a little, drink some wine and try it a bit faster.

2.FLYNN
Technique 8
Compas 8
Aire 9

SCORE 25

Well played and it really sounds like a solea. You scored really well for aire here. It sound relaxed and fluid. Good rasgeos and thumb. You rush the compas a little in the falseta but otherwise very well done.

3. BARNEY
Technique 6
Compas 7
Aire 7

SCORE 20

The quiet recording makes the playing sound a bit insecure but there were some good things here. The compas starts really well and the begining was played confidently. Your rasgueos are basically correct and you use golpes well. However your overall technique let you down especially in the falseta and the ending was a bit weak. Work less on the compas parts now and more on right hand finger exercises.

4. MUGSY
Technique 9
Compas 8
Aire 9

SCORE 26

Lovely tempo, clean and confident playing. The falseta could be smoother but thats just time. Overall I liked your entry the best. The thumb work is punchy and your overall performance really sounds flamenco....you need to do intermediate challenge next.


5. CHESNEY
Technique 6
Compas 8
Aire 8

SCORE 22

I thought you played this with alot of aire and its clear you have listened to a lot of flamenco. My advice for you is almost the complete opposite of my advice for Tally. Wheras you play with good feel and compas, your overall performance was let down by your technique. Your rasgueos in particular need a lot of work as does your left hand ligado. In a way you need to relax less and focus on the technique a lot more. Practise rasgueos on a muted guitar even if you are watching TV or relaxing. You need to spend time daily practising right hand exercises.


Anyway you have all done really, really well. This challenge was much harder than the last one and despite any criticisms (which i mean constructively) you all deserve congratulations.



Doitsujin -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 10:27:09)

Nice challenge! Here the results! ;.)


Tally

Technique 5
Rhythm 5
Aire 6

TOTAL 16

Please grow a thumbnail and play faster, it sounds like like an exercise than like a composition. But there was feeling. Not bad!


Flynn

Technique 8
Rhythm 8
Aire 8

TOTAL 24

Good feeling. It was played with good tempo and accents. Very nice. I like it more than the playing of GGMartinez.



Barney

Technique 5
Rhythm 6
Aire 4

TOTAL 15

Please play with more speed and grow a nail. Especially the slow remate at the end of many compases has no meaning. Its a remate..



Mugsy

Technique 8
Rhythm 7
Aire 7

TOTAL 22


Good playing! You could play a bit more relaxed. Play more balanced speed of parts which are very easy for you and the parts which feel not completely familiar. Anyway. Good playing!


Chesney


Technique 5
Rhythm 5
Aire 6

TOTAL 16

The abanico doesnt work so well as the rythm. Play the 3 with more power especially during the last 2 compases.I would practice this falseta with a metronome it will help Im sure.



JasonMcGuire -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 20 2009 23:43:30)

Tally...

Technique 6
Rhythm 7
Aire 5

Total 18

Work on thumb technique. Do scales using the thumb with a rest stroke. Lots and Lots of them. Rasgueado need to be more defined and crisp. The F chord in the llamada is a little late. You have to anticipate that and actually start it before the beat so it doesn't seem behind. It the upper part of the chord that lands on the beat. Start thinking about using dynamics more. When you have a repeated phrase don't play it at the same volume both times. Also imagine the melodies as a visual entity rising and falling and follow the contour of that movement using dynamics. The music will come to life when you do and you could play it even a hair slower with it still being interesting.


Flynn...

Technique 8
Rhythm 8
Aire 7

Total - 23

This was very controlled rhythmically speaking. There is a lot of strength here. There is some nice musicality in regards to articulation.... playing some notes short and others longer. I like that kind of thing. You could as I mentioned above in the previous submission use more dynamics and your F chord in the llamada is also late. You have to start it before the beat so that it lands on the beat when you get to the upper part of the chord with the thumb. Very good.


Barney....

Technique 6
Rhythm 5
Aire 6

Total 17

The recording was very low, but i heard a lot of buzzing notes. That could be because of the recording. Students often squeeze too hard and can play with more fluidity by softening the grip. You would be amazed at how little pressure it takes to play a note without buzzing. This seemed to have more dynamics that any so far so I gave you points for it in the aire category. The rhythm suffered here though. The tempo fluctuated too much throughout the performance. It ended much slower that it began. I am a fan of usung a somewhat "elastic" compas in solea, but it usually goes the other way slower at the beginning and faster towards the end. The rasgueado seemed to be good, but I may be being decieved by the recording level.


Mugsy....

Technique 9
Rhythm 9
Aire 8

Total - 26

Very good. Rhythm was steady throughout and the sound you are producing is punchy and very effective. More dynamics please. You got the F chord in the llamada right. Good work. Your teacher would be proud.


Chesney....

Technique 4
Rhythm 4
Aire 4

Total 12

There are some problems here. First you need to work on controlling the rhythm when you use ligado technique. Find some ligado exercises and do a lot of them with a metronome. This performance is rushed. You need to respect the notes more as they pass by. Give each note a little bit more attention. The rasgueados don't sound right. You should work on flicking the fingers off of the thumb so that they pass the strings quicker, making a more crisp and vibrant sound. You also need to do lots of work on the thumb. Scales with restrokes like I mentioned to others above.



Florian -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 8:11:39)

I didnt compare you guys against eachother so please dont try to find fairnes in comparing the feedback i wrote to each one of you..when i listened to you i concentrated on you and forghot what i heard just before. I tried to just focus on how it made me feel and how you played acording to your own level...so if i gave you a 6 for compas its a 6 for compas acording to your playing not in comparasent to another entry..

Ofcourse i tried to keep a general prespective too to find a fair winner for the purpose of this challenge but mostly i judged you acording to you and not others who might or might not be in your level..


Well done all


Tally


Technique 8
Rhythm 8
Aire 9

Total 25

I love the dynamics and confidence you played with..also loved the speed, sure the compas was draged a litlle in some small spots but overal i really enjoyed it , i think you know what you need to do and you are and its just a matter of doing it more..I think your strength is dynamics..



Flynn

Technique 8
Rhythm 9
Aire 9


Total 26

I prefered your version to original, even with the poor audio recording the compas felled more nicely rounded to me.
The one thing that stood out to me is that you left your guard down a litlle on an eazy part at 01:06..that chord should have been strogher and shorter..the uncertain and unconfident strum on it took you out of phrase a litlle..

i think once you comit to a swing you are comited ..you cant pull back in places or be unconfident even for a second or it will stand out..

the better you play everything else the more something litlle stands out..





Barney

Technique 6
Rhythm 6
Aire 6

Total 18

Well done, obviously there are different levels of beginners but i am sure you have improved as a result of this..
I cant tell if its your audio setup or your technique that is making your sound so low but you could afford to bash the strings a litlle louder..
Also you tend to strech the compas to suit your abilities ..thats fine to do but then do the whole piece slower ( find the speed you can do the hardest part at and do the whole piece at that speed confidently and evenly)...dont start it fast and than change tempo around areas that are more difficult because they are obvious to the ears..

this is some general recomandations for the future, i realise atm you just trying to get trough the notes

playing loud and sure of yourself projects a certain slef confidence that makes people wanna listen.. if one cant convince himself about a piece of music its going to be almost impossible to convince others listening.


Mugsy


Technique 9
Rhythm 9
Aire 10

Total 28

MugsY you ba*tARD ....... lol i dont really thing you are a ba*tard, is just the name goes well with ba*tard if you said it with an aussie accent ..almost feels natural..(try it to yourself [:)])

You were greate..expecially the point i made above about playing with confidence and conviction, greate sound..almost makes me wonder if you should be in this group ..

I had to listen to the original to compare you to him..its hard because i dont like the way his flows dosent have a natural organic swing to me..so i cant say anything about your swing to you..but i was going to mention the swing and than i listened to the original again..personally i think you can and should do it better..
Yeah yeah i know...how can i do it better then HIM[8|]....well I think you can, no disrespect whatsoever intended to the original guitarist ...who is it btw ? probably because i dont know who it is its eazyer to be outspoken lol

but his swing feels uneazy and "unliquid" ( just made that way of describing up [:D])...its probably more of a style thing than a abilities thing, i dont know..but i cant swing to it at all..i cant imagine seeing a dancer dance to it..its not perfectly even

your strumming that starts at 00:24 stands out a litlle uneven acording to the standards you have allready established in the piece, its a combination of you not digging in enough and the triplets not beeing perfectly rounded or maybe just not even in volume..but this is really really picky, however for your level i think you can handle it..

well done



Chesney





Technique 6
Rhythm 7
Aire 7

Total 20

Even thow you were moving the compas around to suit your abilitites, i got a nice swing from your playing once you got past the areas that are giving you problems and took you out of compas, there were some places where i enjoyed your swing the most, you have a good natural swing you will be great for acompaning dancers..

You are doing great, practice your technique to get the notes clean and not need to slow down the compas around difficult areas or do it slower until you do..

So if you combine this nice natural swing with clean technique and dynamics in your playing..watch out world..[;)]







This was very very tough because i dont know if you were making your own mistakes or copying his..
Yeah i said it..i hate his swing ..so sue me [8|]

if i cant sitt here and pretend to dance to it its no good to me..i uploaded a litlle audio just a short example of the kind of beat any solea falseta should go over..i always imagine the swing and pulse of the solea as the palmas just before the llamada at 00:08..play whatever notes or however many u want as long as it falls well around that swing and projects that swing..

any solea falseta should work well with that kind of beat, even if its a different speed..theres no inbetweens..to me..if it dosent it dosent feel perfectly "liquid" ( so proud of my descriptions [:D]) Imo



Ricardo -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 8:34:18)

Just got back in town. I feel everyone had a pretty steady tempo....for BEGINNERS....(meaning I don't think these folks are true beginners), but that is my opinion. My problems with rhythm, or rather lack of points for compas are more for the problem of the details in between the beats, how well or not you control the spaces between beats and accents....and that relates directly to technique I feel.

Tally
technique-7
compas-7
aire-6
total 20

pretty good accuracy and solid tempo, there was one bad rhythmic spot. But overall, the aire of solea is lacking IMO. Your playing is a bit too "careful" for my taste.

Flynn
7
8
8
Total 23

Good "aire" of solea IMO.

Barney
5
5
7
total 17
You have the right mood for Solea, but need to work on your technique and control the timing of the notes.

Mugsy
6
6
7
total 19
Also good mood and atmosphere of solea, but those little details of timing bother me, it is not controlled enough elasticity for my tastes.

Chesney
4
5
6
total 15
Again, you are getting the right sound or mood of solea, but really need to slow down and work on accuracy and controlling the time.

Ok nice job "beginners".
[;)]

Ricardo



Doitsujin -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 9:38:03)

quote:

This was very very tough because i dont know if you were making your own mistakes or copying his..


[:D][:D]
Yes, GGMartinez is a worse player. I would say hes beginner himself... Man, Im happy someone shares my feeling.. [:)]



Florian -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 9:52:13)

quote:

Yes, GGMartinez is a worse player


[:D][:D][:D] Yeah fu*k tact ..we in a hurry [:)].. bless you DOit i love the way u are lol dont change a thing..

Hes ... ok....



Kate -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 12:44:17)

Sorry for delay in posting, our internet went down. Have to say we thought the standard very high and everyone did very well. Harold was writing comments for everyone last night but then we lost it all and today he has no time to do anything. Sorry about that,

Tally
Technique 8
Rhythm 6
Aire 8
TOTAL 24


Flynn
Technique 7
Rhythm 7
Aire 6
TOTAL 20



Barney
Technique 6
Rhythm 5
Aire 7

TOTAL 18


Mugsy
Technique 9
Rhythm 6
Aire 6
TOTAL 21


Chesney
Technique 7
Rhythm 5
Aire 5
TOTAL 17



Ailsa -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 12:58:27)

Thanks a lot Kate. OK now all the scores are in. Anthony could you please add them up and post the results?

(I mean I can add up myself, but I think as I'm one of the challengers it ought not to be me!)



Ailsa -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 14:26:07)

OK well Anthony is the only one who can reveal all about who the entrants are, so while we await the great revelations I have a few words to say. Ahem, ahem (clears throat).

Thanks to:
Anthony, who was a very efficient administrator and support to me
All the judges pro and non-pro who gave constructive advice
And of course my fellow challengers, from whom I learnt an enormous amount, listening to your contributions.

We at beginners level have done this twice now, and the Advanced Challengers are working up to their challenge on 1st June. After that, how about an Intermediate Challenge? I am a willing admin person for these challenges, so C'MON YOU INTERMEDIATES!![:D][:D]



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 16:36:51)

RESULTS

Tally: Louis_B - 145

Flynn: Ricecrackerphoto - 165

Barney: Ailsa - 121

Mugsy: Michel - 163

Chesney: Domzo - 121



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 16:40:44)

...the Winner is RICECRACKERPHOTO!!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!

AND GREAT JOB TO ALL THE CONTESTANTS!!!

Okay, this thread is now open for public discussion.



ricecrackerphoto -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 20:03:37)

big thanks to alisa and anthony and all the judges and fellow competitors! i've already told anthony that i was declining any prize offered as i was entering the challenge to achieve my own goals.

i've been playing for a while but i'm a really really slooooow learner. it takes a long time to get a falseta under my fingers. and i'm really bad at finishing pieces so this challenge was a great way to put pressure on me in a public way, as was the last beginner's challenge.

especially since i am without a teacher now, this forum has been such a key tool for my improvement. all of the judges feedback was informative and really valuable, so thanks again.

doug

ps-we need a new category in between beginner and intermediate as the moraito bulerias challenge was way beyond me but i'm not a true beginner.



Florian -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 20:31:30)

...
quote:

i've already told anthony that i was declining any prize offered

what are you nuts [&:] ? we dont need your hippy " - i dont need it , i am just happy to be here " kind of mentality around here, what are you too good for free sh*t ?.. you people make me sick ...one can never have enough sh*t.. what kind of sick twisted world are we living in when people stop accepting free sh*t [:(] i have a garage full of sh*t i dont even need...but i like collecting it...cause you never know ..one day when i die my son will inherit all of it [:)]



Congratulations on your win [:D] the rules are simple you win you get prize..dont brake the rules



kozz -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 21:11:02)

Congratulations y'all, you did a good job!

I was wandering what happend with the other 70 contesters?



minordjango -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 21:32:52)

dont be so hard on hippies amigo !!!

hehe , we are a caring bunch!![:D]



Florian -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 21:38:43)

quote:

dont be so hard on hippies amigo !!!

hehe , we are a caring bunch!!


I dont care [8|][:D]



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 21:43:41)

doug, just think of it this way.

you HAVE to take your prize as a punishment for being too good.

or...

the prize will make you a better musician. as a better musician, you can now give the gift of your music to the world, or at least this forum. so it comes around full circle. that's a more hippie way of thinking about it.

quote:


I was wandering what happend with the other 70 contesters?


they're all hippies and don't want any prizes! [:)]



at_leo_87 -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 21:56:12)

oh, and if any one notices any calculation mistakes, please let me know right away. also, my girlfriend helped triple check. just want to give her credit.



michel -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 21 2009 23:50:51)

Thank you Ailsa and Anthony, it was a perfectly organized challenge
congratulations doug, you did a great job, especially because you played it with your own sound. bravo!
i also liked the other submissions, interesting to hear that every player has strong qualities and has to deal with difficult parts.
my problem was the triplet rasgueado, i don't feel confortable with this one since i use p-a-i usually.
big thanks to the judges who gave us really helpful comments and advices, the critiques are similar to those my "real" teachers gave me.
the submission i sent was the 12th or 15th take of that day so i lost the natural feeling and became more and more tense. This solea doesn't give you much space for personal interpretation IMO and that was a real problem for me,
anyway - a really nice experience!

michel



domzo -> RE: *Beginner's Solea Challenge Submissions* (Apr. 22 2009 0:16:06)

Congratulations Doug, and to everyone else for taking part! And thanks to Anthony and Ailsa for organising it.
And a big thank you to the judges for their time and comments - both which are much appreciated

Ailsa - I don't know about you but think we can be quite pleased with joint 4th out of 16 [;)]

p.s. Doug, I'll have the prize if you don't want it - I'm over my hippy phase [;)] [:D][:D]



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