RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner?: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=104611



Message

kozz -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:15:27)

Be open-minded to flamenco....

Flamenco lives. Is. Hapens. Moves. Flamenco takes. Flamenco gives. Flamenco knows. Flamenco talks. Flamenco does. Flamenco leaves. Flamenco comes. Flamenco goes. Unique. Music. Flamenco is daring. Flamenco wins. Flamenco bounces. Flamenco stands. Flamenco falls. Is everywhere. Is emotional. Embraces you. Flamenco rules. Flamenco Heals. Mind. Body. Flamenco grooves. Flamenco fights. Flamenco paysoff. Is like water. Bread. Flamenco smiles. Flamenco cries. Flamenco in. Flamenco out. Flamenco teases. Flamenco cooks. Flamenco is caring. Flamenco bites. Flamenco bleeds. Flamenco doesn't care. Flamenco is black. Flamenco is white. Is red.
Not grey.
Flamenco is calling names. Flamenco shouts. Flamenco needs. Flamenco makes friends. Flamenco searches. Flamenco finds. Flamenco points. Flamenco makes you scary. Flamenco high. Flamenco low. Flamenco in front of you. Flamenco afterwards. Flamenco is smokin. Flamenco hunts. Flamenco is his own boss. Flamenco is understanding, dancing, bleeding, growing, shining, far away, close. Flamenco is love, is bitter sweet. Flamenco is cool. Flamenco is on the road.

For ever. Flamenco was, flamenco is.
Flamenco stays!

And every now and then you take the guitar a play a little bit....



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:17:38)

Absolutely spot-on post there Ricardo!


quote:

The student who wants to learn things "his own way" that makes him happy, will not get very far IMO.


I agree, sometimes folk want to be taught what "their own perception" of Flamenco is.

Best going to Sedlak or Peter Walker and others in that case then IMO.

cheers,

Ron



newstringjunkie -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:32:24)

On buying a second hand guitar of course you'd like to try it first before you have it shipped to you, I tried three guitars in the shop and they where somewhat in the same pricerange but sounded all three completely different, and maybe a certain sound might be considered to be more flamenco, I'd rather have a guitar that I find personnally sounding good to my own ears.

And about picking a little bit here and there as opposed to taking straight flamenco lessons, to each their own, of course this is the flamenco forum but there are so many styles of music and no forum for the omnivorous so maybe someday a jazz player might stray and come here asking stuff, nothing wrong with that is there?

My aim was to get myself acquianted (sp?) with all kinds of styles, I also like Hungarian music and exotic scales and rhythms, so my aim is to learn different styles and in maybe ten years mix m up and make my own music, but for now I'm totally into flamenco but I'll never live and breathe it and I don't even want to, hope I and people like me are still welcome here to learn from the pro's and exchange experiences with fellow string-strugglers



newstringjunkie -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:34:06)

Hey Kozz were you inspired by Jules Deelders ode to jazz poem there?



kozz -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:48:22)

quote:

Hey Kozz were you inspired by Jules Deelders ode to jazz poem there?

Yez indeed....love those poems by Jules and his love for jazz


I have this Alhambra 3F and first I liked it, than I didn't (it didn't sound flamenco) and now I start to like it again.....because my technique is getting better....

The mind can be a tricky thing



duwen -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 8:58:57)

Yeah I also am eclectic. I listen to very many styles of music, some I cannot even name--haha. But heres some, flamenco--of course, Blues--particularly the real old style, especially Delta, and unplugged---i do not like sound of electric guitar, unless Jimi Hendrix is playing it[:D], Classical, Jazz, Bluegrass, Gnwa, many African forms of playing on guitars, and strange stringed instrument

so the question I suppose arises. CAN a person delve into a diversity of styles...? OR devote only to one style?

(sorry, this was in reply to Newstringjunkie) though question's open for all



kozz -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 9:06:28)

quote:

CAN a person delve into a diversity of styles...? OR devote only to one style?


Depends how deep you want to dive into it. But flamenco needs dedication....or will flamencoisch do it for you?

It sounds to me like when playing all those styles you know how to handle a stick and a ball, and all of a sudden you should be able to play polo, golf, hockey.....I've never seen anybody like that

quote:

and strange stringed instrument

Like the Kora and Valiha? Than you should listen to 3MA, a combination of those two combined with Úd



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 9:24:48)

quote:

Be open-minded to flamenco....

Flamenco lives. Is. Hapens. Moves. Flamenco takes. Flamenco gives. Flamenco knows. Flamenco talks. Flamenco does. Flamenco leaves. Flamenco comes. Flamenco goes. Unique. Music. Flamenco is daring. Flamenco wins. Flamenco bounces. Flamenco stands. Flamenco falls. Is everywhere. Is emotional. Embraces you. Flamenco rules. Flamenco Heals. Mind. Body. Flamenco grooves. Flamenco fights. Flamenco paysoff. Is like water. Bread. Flamenco smiles. Flamenco cries. Flamenco in. Flamenco out. Flamenco teases. Flamenco cooks. Flamenco is caring. Flamenco bites. Flamenco bleeds. Flamenco doesn't care. Flamenco is black. Flamenco is white. Is red.
Not grey.
Flamenco is calling names. Flamenco shouts. Flamenco needs. Flamenco makes friends. Flamenco searches. Flamenco finds. Flamenco points. Flamenco makes you scary. Flamenco high. Flamenco low. Flamenco in front of you. Flamenco afterwards. Flamenco is smokin. Flamenco hunts. Flamenco is his own boss. Flamenco is understanding, dancing, bleeding, growing, shining, far away, close. Flamenco is love, is bitter sweet. Flamenco is cool. Flamenco is on the road.

For ever. Flamenco was, flamenco is.
Flamenco stays!

And every now and then you take the guitar a play a little bit....


Sorry Kozz,

I couldn't disagree more!

Forgive me if I've picked you up wrong, but that sort of sounds like the idea is to chill out, smoke a joint and just let the music flow into your head without judging it, just go with the passion.
Then when you feel like it, pick up the guitar and strum and play whatever you feel, so long as you put your heart and soul into it.

That's not Flamenco....that's just getting stoned and strumming the guitar and watching the pretty colours! [:D][:D]

To do ANYTHING in Flamenco...guitar, singing, dancing, palmas or cajon, and to do it with ANY degree of authenticity will normally require years of dedicated practise and study.

These Gitanos and great Artists you see, weren't born being able to do any of those things, but they grew up in an environment of artistic discipline and respect to Tradition, so that practising the right thing the right way for 6 hours a day wasn't seen as anything unusual.

I'm not jumping on you or anything man...I just don't want others to get the wrong impression about this stuff! [:D]

cheers,

Ron



kozz -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 9:33:15)

I think you misunderstood me than Ron, no offence....
I was writing this because reading this forum it was about scales.....there is more than scales, and not only 1 scale....
And I totally agree with you that to fully understand flamenco it needs dedication, study, practicing....

It was more like, be open-minded, put it into practice and don't focus to much on that flamenco is a scale or two....

Perhaps I should have left the last sentence out... or is it because I am from the Netherlands that I am smoking joints?????? (Did so long long time ago in a galaxy far far away)
A lot of Scotties here in the Neds though....not for haggish [;)]



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 9:41:41)

quote:

or is it because I am from the Netherlands that I am smoking joints??????


Umm Kozz...I believe they do it in other places too...(so I'm told) [:D][:D]

But you see what I'm saying?
It's like saying to a kid "To be a great Chemist or Scientist you just need to love Science, don't bother with all the maths and calculations and terms and stuff....just love Science and love the Universe and let the Force be with you..." [:D]

And the kid gets an F minus in his first year at Uni....[:-]

cheers,

Ron



Arash -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 10:51:52)

I am a little confused now with all these descriptions.
So if i go to a coffe shop in Holland and smoke some Hashish.,,,,i will become a real Aficionado or what?



duwen -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 10:52:40)

lol but you see maybe i have a more romantic notion of real gypsy flamenco which in its original forms was - I imagine- more spontaneous...pouring out so to speak from the soul, and NOT too studied as you suggest

Though you seem to say it is kind of rote. With people having to practice a hand movement 6 hours a day?

Is that the traditional way. If so I really need to know and spelled out the way for a beginner to start

If it IS so structured, then please let me know exactly the exercises?



Doitsujin -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:15:02)

[&:] WTF? This is the second thread in 2 weeks I don't understand at all.....[:(]



duwen -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:19:50)

how dya mean?



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:26:30)

quote:

lol but you see maybe i have a more romantic notion of real gypsy flamenco which in its original forms was - I imagine- more spontaneous...pouring out so to speak from the soul


That's the way great Artists want to make you feel.
That is their talent....from Judy Garland to Frank Sinatra to El Camaron de la Isla.

That take's a LOT of sweat, study and practise and stagecraft, so that it looks natural and easy.....
That's what Performance Art is about.

The best way to begin learning Flamenco is to forget about the guitar in the meantime and spend your money on Flamenco CD's and listen.
Learn how the rhythms actually go, rather than just tap your foot for a bit, then get lost, then catch on again.
Listen out for what makes Soleares different from Alegrias and why that is different to Bulerias.

Why some songs have no timing or rhythm at all....but are sung "free".

etc etc

If I were to go fishing for Salmon, I'd want to know what a Salmon looked like first.... it's life, habits and environment and observe other Salmon fishermen..... and not just put a hook on a piece of string and drop it into the first bit of running water I came to and hope for a result. [;)]

cheers,

Ron



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:34:36)

quote:

So if i go to a coffe shop in Holland and smoke some Hashish.,,,,i will become a real Aficionado or what?


Well Arash, depending on how much weed you smoke, I guess you can be anything you want to be....(avoid Superman though...that can be dangerous!...[:D])

cheers,

Ron



Arash -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:40:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

So if i go to a coffe shop in Holland and smoke some Hashish.,,,,i will become a real Aficionado or what?


Well Arash, depending on how much weed you smoke, I guess you can be anything you want to be....(avoid Superman though...that can be dangerous!...[:D])

cheers,

Ron


Thats great!
I will smoke one Kilo and will be Allah himself
(Superman is lame).



Escribano -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 11:58:47)

Flamenco is hard... so hard that the best have to practise all the time and then, sometimes, they stop for a bit.



Ricardo -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 29 2009 14:26:56)

quote:

If it IS so structured, then please let me know exactly the exercises?


Best thing is you find a teacher. Meanwhile there are some online lesson sites such as www.Flamenco-teacher.com and www.Flamenco-lessons.com

Ricardo



duwen -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 3:32:10)

i know my nature is very perverse..............i am not a disciplined person. So the idea now, especially at my grand age buclking down to try and master the deep art of flamenco is not realistic. Though i am want to try and be flamencoiish, in that i will want to hang out with flamencos and learn some moves on guitar

But for ME, not you him her---i want to have eclectic feel for guitar. IF i was younger I may very well have dived into Flamenco---dont know. I had other dreams though that didn't happen

I can still feel flamenco, even thou i may not be able to play it on guitar. And I will still want to learn more. But not with pressure of 'i have to do abc'

thanks for the links

flamenco is really more than playing guitar, cante, dance---it is soul



Ricardo -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 9:52:33)

If you could simply strum the proper chords in the proper rhythm, you could actually be a working professional. Unfortunately, so many students get caught up with the advanced techniques of the soloists, and counting beats and such, that they take a long time before getting the "basics" down. But really, I think if someone can simply strum the chords the right way, they are doing the real flamenco. But you really need feedback from a teacher or other flamencos to know if you are really doing it right.

Ricardo



gato -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 10:05:36)

Here's a kick, sometimes I like to use the index finger or i to play what we call pulger because I can add picado with ease if I want to. Makes sense to me although I never have seen anyone do it. And in that sense we are all quite very different with the things that we learn. It's great to have a good sense of what you do and why, and I do have reason. Keep exploring with freedom to make your own choices, and you will go far, although some things are better to take as they are, and we decide, and nobody choses for us. And that's what I find works out to be the case, and in the end with the experiance of years....
Gary

eh? [:D]



GuitarVlog -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 10:22:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I agree, sometimes folk want to be taught what "their own perception" of Flamenco is.

Best going to Sedlak or Peter Walker and others in that case then IMO.


What's wrong with a flamenco instrumental tribute to the Bee Gees?



[;)] [:D]



Ron.M -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 10:30:47)

[:D][:D]

Actually Juan Serrano did an LP which had "Flamenco Impressions of New York" and "Autumn Leaves".

And it was muy Flamenco!

Like, even when the guy was asked to be "cheesy" by the Record Company in order to make sales, he still couldn't hide his authentic Flamenco upbringing!

Interesting Album if you can still get it.

cheers,

Ron



gato -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 30 2009 11:01:09)

Well everybody, 'non flamenco' pays the bills whatever it is, and I have said it before here and I will say it again. The record companies do whatever they can to keep in business, although we don't really apreciate it [:'(] although, I can see that real honest to God flamenco needs an open marketplace and money to operate......it's like that in all aspects of business and that's what it is, a buisness. [;)]
Gary

Everybody's got to have money! [:D]



duwen -> RE: Please help me--pootete beginnerr beginner? (Mar. 31 2009 7:41:14)

as LONG as you dont lose your soul! ...which can be easy once the money men start manipulating their 'rising star' whatever

I spose there are some exceptional actors that sometimes take dodgy parts in crap films etc for some quick bucks. But as long as they never lose their boldness to keep learn their art in deeper ways than dying into mediocrity

Some artists will never sell out, and I usually respect them most



Page: <<   <   1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET