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Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 9 2009 6:30:43)

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edguerin -> RE: tuning (Mar. 9 2009 8:43:18)

Easy check:
Compare 2nd string (B) held at 5th fret with 1st E: it should sound exactly the same.
If not you've probably tuned to E an octave (or even two) lower.
This would match 4th string (D) held at the 2nd fret or the open 6th string (E)




at_leo_87 -> RE: tuning (Mar. 9 2009 20:32:35)

quote:


When tuning strings do we actually cycle past the notes E f g a b c d E until it acheives the correct tension?


you dont really tune up to achieve proper tension. you tune to get string into it's proper note in the proper octave.

you must have a chromatic tuner. it says it's an "e" because it IS an "e." it's just the wrong "e." you're in the wrong octave as edguerin said.

so you do cycle past the notes until you hit the right octave.

{e - f - g - a - b - c - d} - the E here is the open 6th string
{e - f - g - a - b - c - d} - the E here is the 4th string, 2nd fret
{e - f - g - a - b - c - d} - the E here is the open 1st string

as you can see, they're all E's. just in different octaves.

sidenote: you should stop using tuners as soon as possible and start tuning using reference notes. it'll train your ears for the future and you wont have to deal with stuff like this ever again.

hope this helps!




Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 10 2009 10:49:50)

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andresito -> RE: tuning (Mar. 10 2009 14:01:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf
My concern here is that I do not want to overtighten and then put too much stress on the guitar top, perhaps I have a bad treb string?

How do most people tune new strings? Tune up to pitch every half hour for a couple of days? Or tune a step up and let it come back down to pitch a couple of times?




at_leo_87 -> RE: tuning (Mar. 10 2009 14:16:11)

quote:


How do most people tune new strings? Tune up to pitch every half hour for a couple of days? Or tune a step up and let it come back down to pitch a couple of times?


more like tune up every five minutes for two days!

sometimes, i'll put on new strings at night or early in morning, just whenever i know i'm going to be away from the guitar for awhile. i'll play really some hard rasgueados, tune up, leave the guitar then come back after a day, tune up, and by now it's pretty settled. that way, i dont have to just sit there and tune every two seconds.




dark_lord -> RE: tuning (Aug. 5 2013 22:07:32)

I do it the same way as when I string my electrics. I tune it to pitch and pull each string away from the guitar like I'm pulling an arrow in a bow. I then release the string and repeat a couple of time then retune it. I repeat this until the heard pitch starts to decrease at a lesser rate. This method always shortened the time it took to break them in, at least for me...




Flamencito -> RE: tuning (Aug. 5 2013 22:34:31)

I usually tune them up a 2 semitones, play a bit, back to what i tuned it to, play a bit, tune it up only one semitone, play a bit, repeat these steps a couple of times and then finally tune it to the standard tuning... Saves me A LOT of time...

Any (good) reasons why not to do this?




guitarbuddha -> RE: tuning (Aug. 5 2013 22:37:18)

Tune up a tone and a half (three whole frets) above normal pitch.

Leave overnight. Bring back down below and then tune back up to standard pitch.

Will settle within a day.

D.

(tuning up this much is less likely to pull the bridge off than the bow and arrow method and actually works.)




Erik van Goch -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 0:00:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: andresito
How do most people tune new strings? Tune up to pitch every half hour for a couple of days? Or tune a step up and let it come back down to pitch a couple of times?


I can only tell you how i do it. When a new string reaches its intended tension for the first time it will be stretched out, which structurally alters it's shape and behavior. The pitch will keep dropping as long as the string is not yet fully stretched out. On top of this well known phenomenon there is another less obvious source of string dropping: the windings you created to tune the string. When you wind your strings the normal way only a limited amount of tension is stored into the windings at first. When string tension raises the already winded part of the string will tighten up correspondingly, but they don't fully stretch out/tighten up right away. As a result an osmotic kind of tug-of-war starts between the lower level energy stored in the windings and the higher level energy stored in the plugged part of the string. As long as the level of energy stored in the windings is not in balance yet with the level of energy stored in the freshly tuned string the windings will locally tighten up more and more, releasing a little bit of string in the process. This causes additional tune dropping and on top it is very well possible this freshly released part of string has still to undergo previously mentioned stretching transition on top of it, causing even more tune dropping on the long run. You will have far less problems if you put on an old string that you have used before since it already made the full transition previously.

To limit tune dropping to an absolute minimum you simply have to add more tension into the windings when winding the string. You can do that by pulling the string in the opposite direction with one hand wile the other hand winds the string (make sure not to damage the strings during the process). So you basically try to imitate the future string tension by applying local pulling tension on that part of the string that is being winded at that very moment. As a result more energy is stored into the windings right away, limiting the amount of tug-of-war time to an absolute minimum (apr. 1 or 2 hours).

For a life cd-recording of Flairck i once had to change over 60 strings only hours before the concert. So i added a lot of extra manual energy into the winding to make sure they would be trustable within hours. After 2 hours of restringing over 60 metal strings i hardly had power/feeling left in my fingers, but the reward was great. That night (for the first time ever) i hardly had to re-tune the battery of 12 string guitars during the break because all the strings were still in perfect pitch (normally even the guitars that were not played before the break would drop a halftone dude to the heat of the super troupers). Even better, i didn't have to retune them for 3 days. Bud i did spend over an hour on tuning the sitar (melody strings with a tuner, resonance strings by ear).

So, by pulling the strings in the opposite direction during winding (adding extra energy on the windings) tune dropping can be limited to 1 or 2 hours. . During winding i also pay special attention to how the windings end up. The first windings i drop side a side (they touch but they don't overleap/cross). The last windings are privilege a little more space in between each other and i make sure they line up perfectly with the open part of the string (no sharp angles). I also make sure the bridge knob is tightened up well enough. To speed up the tug-of-war process i also tune it a halftone above the normal tuning a couple of times. Before i up-tune the dropped strings again i frequently apply manual string pulling/massage again, concentrating on stretching the string and feeding the windings and the bridge knot with additional energy.

I also have a "solution" for pimping up old bass-strings. As you know bass strings generally consist of a hex-core wounded by a metal wire. Over time the metal windings (wrap wire) become stuffed with filth (like dead skin cels) which tempers the sound. All you have to do is down tune the string apr. 1,5/2 octave, take the string between to fingers, pull it like a bow and arrow and smash it against the fretboard. It looks (and is) quite violent, but if you do it a couple of times in a row you smash out most of the dirt and if you up-tune it again it will sound much clearer than before. It will only work for a very short time but that can be long enough to play a couple of pieces for public. When you own a guitar with traditional pegs you can do all 3 strings within a minute.




Ruphus -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 0:50:19)

I am with Erik on this one.
When you pull reasonably while winding up it will shorten the time of adaption.
Professional giggers / roadies do so to help freshly strung up instruments stay in tune.

Another useful thing you can do is twisting the wounded strings with the wound direction, which helps them stay somewhat dense with the stretching.

What David and Flamencito recommended seems too much to me / will over stretch and should shorten the strings livetime / reduce brilliance / eventually eveness of diameter = intonation.

Ruphus




Ricardo -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 3:05:25)

quote:

Any (good) reasons why not to do this?


these are my opinions, so no offense to any others that have success with their methods.

1. Do NOT tug the strings as winding them or even after they are up to pitch. Why? Cuz you are damaging the wood in the string holes at the tie block. Also could be weakening the string itself, affecting it's potential life span or intonation. Especially the basses as they are like a little saw cutting up the tie block inside. Nice guitars have been repaired with this issue only by filling the string holes with wood dowels and glue, and having them re-drilled. Obviously this problem will be more or less serious how often you are changing strings.

2. I don't see a need to tune up anything more than a semi tone. If you change all 6 and have it at a semi tone sharp, over night in the case, (or even shorter time, just an hour to the gig or whatever) it will stretch just enough to be at pitch just fine. I only warn that over tuning CAN (not always but it is a potential problem especially the harder tension type strings) cause them to snap, most often the thinner D string or treble E string. I feel anything higher than a semi tone is arbitrary and you most likely have to keep tunning it downward if you let it settle like that for long (hours and hours or over night).

Ricardo




LeƱador -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 4:30:17)

quote:

Don't NOT


Wait, so I should tug them?? lol




Ricardo -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 14:55:14)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

quote:

Don't NOT


Wait, so I should tug them?? lol


Don't not NOT tug them.




Erik van Goch -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 15:11:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

quote:

Don't NOT


Wait, so I should tug them?? lol


Don't not NOT tug them.


Do i sense a tendency of miscommunication here?




Ricardo -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 15:30:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

quote:

Don't NOT


Wait, so I should tug them?? lol


Don't not NOT tug them.


Do i sense a tendency of miscommunication here?

No, you don't not not not sense it.




Erik van Goch -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 15:41:57)

quote:

No, you don't not not not sense it.


Thanks for clearing that out, that's a very reassuring thought.




aeolus -> RE: tuning (Aug. 6 2013 16:14:04)

I saw J Williams in concert give an almighty tug on his sixth string to prevent it from rebounding when tuned to D and I have seen others as well use that dodge. But I can see how it's bound to abrade the string hole in the bridge so doing it on a regular basis wouldn't seem to be advised.
I have guitar from Ethan Deutsch with Pegheds (mechanical pegs)instead of tuning machines and very little of the string is wound on them so they seem to suffer less from falling out of tune. I love them and would specify them if I have a classical made.




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