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ORIGINAL: Armando

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And another thing is that not all guitars work on the same principle Jose used, they can take on various top thicknesses, and according to many flamenco guitars, the top can be completely flat rather than graduated thinner at the edges.

Tom

Yes, i agree with you on that. Now as i know more about the Reyes design i have to admit, that the two designs are quite different and in some aspects opposed to each other. We should not forget that José builds classical guitars only. In contrast to all other spanish luthiers, he was the one who desided to take students and teach them, so i went to his course and learned from him. Now as he was my teacher, i'm somehow try to follow his line as i like the way he works. I've realized that many things are equal to the flamenco guitar making, some others aren't. So this other flamenco specific things are mostly known by theory, but maybe practically there are still some abilities that i'm missing.

Regarding the flat soundboard, i know that most spanish makers from the pre Torres era have built their guitars with flat tops. After Torres successfully introduced the domed soundboard, most guitarmakers changed to this new design. Today i don't know any spanish flamenco guitar maker who builds with totally flat tops, so i think Reyes must be an exception.

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I believe it's better to, at least, show the student a measurement from which to work around, in a general area. Measurements are good to know when working with any musical instrument. And this doesn't mean the exact same thickness on all guitars of the same design but a medium from which to work.

Well, i guess José didn't showed measurements because this could be easily taken as a reference measurement by some listeners. At his guitarmaking course he showed a detailled plan of his 1973 Julien Bream model, so there is nothing for him to hide.

As i've allready mentioned i don't either support those guitarmakers who come up with certain measurement like they were valid in general for every guitar. José for instance showed us one of his guitars with the top being about 1,5mm thick. He added the comment, that such a thickness could only work with the stiffest sort of spruce. On the course there was a student who built his soundboard of quite bad quality spruce so the top ended having a thickness of 2,7mm in the center and José said that's fine. So you see, the difference might be more than a mm depending on the material used.
Yes of course he could take the average between best and worst which would mean that a soundboard should be 2,1mm thick, but is that accurate?
Therefore i agree with José that it is much more important to develop the senses and feel the wood and when the flex is right.

regards

Armando

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That's fine, Jose has his way and I have my way; no disrespect. They both work and this is to say that there is more than one way to build a guitar.

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I think it's a bit esoteric in the sense that Jose didn't discuss any measurements with us at the GAL meeting, but just how the top should feel.

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ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

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I think it's a bit esoteric in the sense that Jose didn't discuss any measurements with us at the GAL meeting, but just how the top should feel.

You are using the word esoterical in a wrong way. Using the sensitivity of your fingers is just another way of meassuring. Its the most traditional and IMHO by far the most precise.
Its the typical difference between the European way and the American way. You americans put much more emphasis on tools, jigs, meassures etc. I think its all usefull, but in the end I will always trust the sensitivity of fingers a lot more than anything else.

Another thing is that you keep talking (50 times or 100 times?) about the enourmoeus amount of information which is in your Reyes plan and that the rest of the plans dont have these information.
When someone who has the plan (like me and some others) ask where all that information is to be found, the answer is that its to complicated for the foro, but that you can answer in a personal mail or that you can offer a 1000,-$ fine tuning course.
Now that is esoterical to me.

Your plan is good. Its a bit weird because it uses these thin pieces of wood inbetween the braces in the lower bout and because it uses a flat soundboard.
This way, first time builders will start building something not very traditional or typical. I dont thing thats a good starting point. but thats just me.

Besides that, the plan is very well drawn. very precise, but all that info you say that is in the plan. where is it? Its an asymetrically tuned soundboard based on a symetrical bracing layout. This I can see, but its not more informative than something else. Where are all these fine tuning details that you´ve talked and talked and talked and talked about without ever going into details.
Its to mystical for me

I think I will put the plan on my wall and look at it some more. Maybe one day when the sun and the moon is right, I will get it. Or maybe I should start praying or taking one of your 1000,-$ courses

Merry Christmas

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And after all of the known resources are used to calibrate the top. Then it wouldn't hurt to pray, my friend.

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ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

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And after all of the known resources are used to calibrate the top. Then it wouldn't hurt to pray, my friend.

I´m not much of a prayer myself. I prefer dancing. It works better for me but I know that both ways are a bit on the esoterical side.

I to prefer tops which are not to stiff. But they have to be light. And I also start with a certain thickness. Normally around 2,4mm and then I go thinner using the sensitivity of my fingers. I leave it a little bit on the stiff (thick) side and then later on when the guitar is ready for the bridge, I sand a bit, using a Hacklinger to control what I´m doing and my ears to hear what I´m doing (tap tap). I also leave the top more or less with the same thickness all over. This on classicals as well.
A good top normally ends up around 2,1mm

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ORIGINAL: Ramón

Tom,

If you would, please;

How do you 'tune' a top? Do you attach a guitar tuner with a clip-on to the soundboard before placement on the solera??? I hear this mentioned all the time, but don't understand how it's achieved.

Thank you

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then I pop off the bridge

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ORIGINAL: Taranto

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then I pop off the bridge

How do you pop off the bridge? I'm assuming you attach it with hide glue? Hence you heat the bridge? Do you plane the bridge before heating it?

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See this article I wrote for trade secrets in their Stew Mac catalog.

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ORIGINAL: Taranto

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See this article I wrote for trade secrets in their Stew Mac catalog.

Thanks, sounds risky though. The heat might even loosen the braces besides the center seam.