Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Nails?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

Nails? 

Surprisingly, I couldn't find an existing post on this topic.

Out of curiosity, what does everyone here do for nails?

acrylics, silk, natural, nail hardeners, glue?

what kind of tools do you use to shape and maintain?

how long do you keep your nails? Ramping is pretty popular with classical guitarists. Does anybody here ramp their nails? What shape do you prefer?

What's the best nail advice you've ever gotten?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2008 0:24:04
 
sam_m

 

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

I searched for this yesterday and did find a couple of topics, but mostly to do with repairing a nail once it's broken.

Do any of you use any of the above as a general rule, rather than just to repair breaks? I'm experimenting with nail shapes, but I think I got my first trial wrong, so some guidance there would be ace too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2008 3:46:13
 
Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

quote:

Surprisingly, I couldn't find an existing post on this topic.


there should be quite a few of those threads, in fact I started some myself..... ill have a look in a min..

It's taken me a while to find the right nail shape and I still don't rule out slight changes in the future.

I ramp my index and middle up away from my thumb, and my anular down towards little finger.

my nails seem to be getting shorter as I progress.

quote:

What's the best nail advice you've ever gotten?


someone on the foro (koella??) posted that he had some advice to make his thumb nail shorter, and it massively improved his alzapua... I tried it and it did exactly the same!!

I am still a little unsure as to my ideal shape and a nail shape change that appears to do wonders for one technique, sometimes seems to affect another techniques for the worse. I'm slowly finding a place (nail shape) where all techniques can meet and live together in harmony.

Stu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2008 4:28:02
 
Bogdan1980

 

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

I was looking for similar threads just the other day. Nada.

I keep my nails based on my classical teacher days way back. In classical I adhere to Pepe Romero position (also Scott Tennant) so the nails are done accordingly. Actually similar to what Stu is describing. But I found that if you sit in typical flamenco position (like Paco sits) and you play picado, you hand becomes more perpendicular to strings and nails of such shape catch too much. So I always thought that they are different shape in flamenco players.

As far as shaping I just use a double sided nail file. One side is for shaping the other is finer for finishing?

So what is the right flamenco shape????
Post pictures.

Bogdan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2008 7:01:49
 
ToqueNW

Posts: 16
Joined: Nov. 20 2008
From: Seattle

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

What a good question--and one that touches on a long standing (and surely pathological) obsession of mine. I don't know where you all fall in the spectrum, but I've got fairly weak nails, and, as such, have experimented with a lot of different approaches.

  • Products: There's no way I can get a solid practice (let alone a two hour show) in without something on my nails (I mostly play for dancers). I've tried superglue alone, but found that it chips off way too easily. Fiberglass (applies like silk) with glue works pretty well for strength, but still only lasts me a day or two (four tops). What I've been using lately (as in the last five or six months) and absolutely love is an acrylic "dip." A "dip" isn't what it sounds like--it's actually a jar of fine acrylic powder: you put a thin coat of glue on your nail, then dip it in the powder. I usually do three layers. The stuff sets up in about an hour, but sometimes I put it on before bed and work on it in the morning just to make sure it's solid. Anyway, once you've got the stuff on (I cover about half the nail), even it out with a medium file (80), then again with a fine (100). The acrylic will be smooth but sort of dull. I usually smooth and buff it (with a buffing block). This will make it look better--and I can't help but think my tone is just a bit sweeter with the smoother surface. This whole process sounds time intensive, but (setup time aside), now that I have a system, I can do it in about 20 minutes. The result is a thicker, harder nail--in my case it hasn't failed me yet (knocking on wood). Sometimes the edges start to come up, but a bit of glue will put them back down (I use glue with a brush applicator). The other nice thing is, if you do loose a chunk, you can "re-dip" the missing area only and re-shape; it blends smooth. I usually have to re-do my whole hand about once every two or three weeks. (My apologies if this is obvious to a lot of you, but I had never heard of this stuff before, so I'm explaining it like it just fell out of the sky. I did warn you that I have a "special" relationship with this topic.)

    BTW, I DO NOT recommend the Sally Hansen brand "nail hardeners." These make nails "shiny" by putting a layer of not quite hard stuff on them--stuff that sounds crappy and scrapes/peels off in a day or two. I also don't mind saying that the fumes from this stuff made me physically ill.

  • Tools: A medium/fine emery board (I like the soft core ones) and a buffing block. I've experimented with metal and glass files. They work all right, but they don't feel very good (for what that's worth).

  • Shape: I'm in the same boat as Stu:
    quote:

    my nails seem to be getting shorter as I progress.
    One thing I've notices since I've started in with the acrylic is that I have to file my nails more often--I'm pretty sure this is because I'm no longer wearing them down on my bass strings (i.e. they're holding up better). Also like Stu, I have also started ramping my index and middle up away from my thumb. I find this helps my picado a lot--it means that I can have a "shorter" nail thumb-side, so that fast runs are easier to hit with a flesh/nail combination (does that make sense?), but so that my nails on the little-finger side are still long enough for a crisp rasgueado. This has done some unholy things to the angle of my wrist during some passages (i.e. canted it back just about as far as it will go), but I've also found that by turning my wrist a bit and using the short (ramped) nail edge, the hand position makes up for the difference in length between my index and middle finger. This makes certain picado runs easier--and, just as importantly, doesn't seem to make other things harder. It took me a while to learn how to relax my wrist in this position, but so far so good.

    Regarding the thumb, I again agree with Stu:
    quote:

    someone on the foro (koella??) posted that he had some advice to make his thumb nail shorter, and it massively improved his alzapua... I tried it and it did exactly the same!!
    I (alas), didn't pick this up of the foro, but I too find that a shorter thumb makes for a much easier fast alzapua. My recommendation: shave a bit off, try some alzapua, shave a bit more, try a bit more. It all depends on the shape of your thumb, but, in my case, anyway, once I hit the sweet spot (or length, as it were), I knew it. I also find, with a short thumb nail, that keeping a slight amount of flexion in the last joint of the thumb makes for wicked attack and control.

    (I find, having written this, that a lot of the "nail shape" stuff might not make a lot of sense. If anyone's interested, I can elaborate later. If not, well, that's fine too.)


Okay, I realize that got really tangential, but my takeaway point is perhaps, like other people have mentioned here, that nails (like fingers, arm and torso length, etc.) are pretty personal. I'm usually a bit suspicious of someone who says they've got the right answer for everyone--I don't think there is a right answer for everyone (not that anyone here has done that; I'm just sayin'). But there are things that work well for some people. In any case, this is what I've found.

BTW, I get a lot of my beauty . . . er, "nail care" products from a company called Trans Design. You can find glues here, dips and fiberglass are here. Also, I realize any discussion of nails of this length automatically opens one up to an irresistible temptation to ridicule. I also realize it's probably not wholly unwarranted. If I admit openly that this level of concern over nails is ridiculous, might I mitigate the inevitable heckling? I suppose we'll all see.

Anyway, I hope some of that is useful.

Best,
Andy

_____________________________

Ravenna Flamenco
www.ravennaflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 27 2008 0:11:00
 
val

 

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

quote:

best nail advice you've ever gotten

Polish edges of nails with Crocus paper.
Not so easy to find these days, but I believe clockmakers and jewelers use it. A

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 27 2008 14:50:20

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

Ive been going natural, with just a bit of Barielle Nail Building Protein on
the top half of the nail.
The protein makes them a little thicker, and doesnt harden like "hardeners"
tend to do.
The stay a bit soft, yet strong.

Best of luck!

TK

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 27 2008 15:09:09
 
Bogdan1980

 

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

Now, you guys are using products for a reason right? Are you nails soft or something? I'm curios, I never used one. Mine seem to work fine, or is it really improving the sound when you use one?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 6:27:39
 
Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nails? (in reply to Bogdan1980

me too bogdan. I've never had the need to use hardener/glue/product. maybe we're just very lucky to have strong but flexible nails?

they certainly break but not really from playing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 7:24:59
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Nails? (in reply to Stu

i have really tough strong nails, and haven't broken one for years (touch wood!), but if i do a lot of dance accompaniment, and do a lot of hard and/or fast rasgeo it just wears away at the surface of the nail.

it did happen once when i did a lot of rehearsals that one of my nails got so worn it got quite thin, and a tiny hairline crack appeared at the end of the nail, at which point i reached for the superglue!

actually, i have tried lots of things, including super glue (and super glue and laters of rizla papers!), and for years used sally hansens "hard as nails" varnish (not the rubbery hardener crap). problem being that gets worn down too quickly and i'm lazy so i don't like spending too much time re varnishing. currently i'm using "nailene ultra quick" glue from boots/chemists. it dries quick, is rock hard, but seems slightly flexible. i clean it off and reapply every couple of weeks, but i usually let it get in quite a chipped and knackered state before i bother cleaning it all off and starting again. i don't like the acrylic powder you're supposed to use with it 'cos it goes too brittle and chips too easily.

my finger nails are short, i and m almost straight across, a angled towards my pinky.... 'cos that's where i contact the strings....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 9:18:13
 
massa

 

Posts: 10
Joined: Aug. 19 2008
 

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

i use nail hardeners . i do it night before 2 or 3 brush.it works 2-3 days and after clean with acetonfri remover. i do it for half of nailes.using sweet alamond oil in night especialy after removing and filing gives good and healthy feeling in nail and fingers.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 9:57:10
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

hey guys,
good replies here!

for those that ramp their nails, is there a reason? i always imagined that ramping nails would make them more susceptible to breaks especially with hard rasgueados. do you play classical as well?

i agree with you andy. (i like that website by the way! i learned the easier tangos but that second to last measure is tough.) i used to use sally hansen's stuff but it came off after an hour of practice. now i go all natural. i'm thinking of using a nail treatment like toddk but maybe onymyrrhe.

my nail don't break while playing anymore but they do break from working with my hands.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 11:04:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

The ramping nail shape has more to do with the angle you play at, how your wrist is held. Most flamencos play more straight on to the strings, with the wrist bent. The idea is to have least resistance to the string. I ramp the index up left to right, the middle is straight across, and the ring is up right to left (opposite the index).

The confusing thing is how to file that way, because some folks don't realize how to file straight or "flat", but you don't literally make a square out of your nail. Your nail is curved. There are lots of threads on this subject in the archives with pics, I will try to search for em when I get free time.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 12:16:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nails? (in reply to Ricardo

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=74717&p=8&tmode=1&smode=1

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 12:30:35
 
Bogdan1980

 

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

Ricardo

Thanks, that's good to know. That is the way I file them and last time you were at my place I forgot to ask you how you had yours filed. I also gotten a little overzealous and filed them too much that time. But now I'm all in shape.

Bogdan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 13:36:09
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Nails? (in reply to at_leo_87

hey ricardo, thanks for that link.
the first poster had some wicked long nails!

i can't see the ramping too much from the pictures you posted. it must be very slight. i'll have to experiment.

my a fingernail breaks a lot from golpes so i'll probably leave it very short and more or less flat.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 28 2008 21:59:59
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

9.423828E-02 secs.