Solea composition

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Solea composition

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

Solea composition

Hey everyone

To get away from politics...let's talk about Solea for a bit.
I'm working on the palo and would like to make sure I'm getting the structure of it.
As I understand it starts with your typical entrada from which you go to the basic rhythmic patterns. From there you go to falsetas alternating with a rhythmic pattern again. Is that it? and how do you finish?

I hear the picado and chord finishes a lot from Paco, is that the way? Am I missing something?

Thanks
Bogdan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 6 2008 6:24:31

jonc

Posts: 33
Joined: Oct. 24 2008
From: New England, USia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

probably the best thing to do is to listen to a lot of solea recordings and outline them. that's the ideal way to understand its form.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 6 2008 11:43:45

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hey, this is a good question, lets explore it. What to do for solo solea and what about playing for dancers. I want to start playing solea for dancers and really want to know what to expect etc.

OK, so you do the entrada and some basic compas, when do you introduce the escobilla F, C, F, E and how is the best way to jump into it?

Also, do you change to the key of C for a singer, like C, F, G7 etc for dance practice or stick to just por Arriba?

Do dancers want to here some falsetas or fuggetaboutit...

I hope I am making some sense.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 6 2008 14:32:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Solea is not structured in any special way. The smallest piece to understand is a simple letra. It is a 3 liner, and this about it. Meaning a total of 4 compases. That's a solea plain and simple. A singer can repeat the last 2 lines if he/she wants or not, repeat the first line, or leave a space....or not, or stretch it out by holding and embelishing a note. Then he/she can do another letra or not if they wish. So you have letras, and the singer improvises both the structure of those as I described. It is most typical in a single performance of Solea cante to do 3 or more letras, and the more valiente or high pitched ones toward the end. The actually ending may or may not be "por bulerias". So you have LOTS of room to improvise inother words.

Interms of guitar, you just have the basic compas and falsetas, again you improvise which ever how you like. If with a singer, the falsetas can start or go between the letras as you feel. A guitar solo is nothing more than a personalized mix of falsetas. Like the cante, it maybe typical to end "por bulerias". That is about all there is to structure.

The dance however is usually very structured. The basic skeleton of the dance is:
Falseta intro
Singer temple or warm up with ay ay ay
llamada
Letra (slow)
Falseta or llamada
Escobilla
llamada for Solea por bulerias
letra of Solea por bulerias
Escobilla
Build into bulerias rhythm
Bulerias.

That is typical, at anytime special falsetas might be used, or extra letras of Solea, for example instead of first escobilla, a long llamada will go to a more valiente letra of solea. Likewise, there can a couple letras of Solxbul. There can be a "solo de pie" in there after or in place of an excobilla, bulerias letras added in to the escobillas etc etc, depending on what the dance wants. Point is, it is structured, and the above is just a blue print.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2008 7:48:48

Boom

Posts: 1
Joined: Nov. 7 2008

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Just joined this Forum, and want to say hello to every one and pay compliments for the high standard of the posts I read.

I am new to Flamenco but very passionate about it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2008 15:01:47

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Ricardo

That's great. Thanks for the detailed discription. Llamada is one thing I had a question about . I'm guessing that it is a call for a singer to enter and it is usually played as a change from E to F major chord. Is that right?

What about escobilla? What is the purpose of it?

Thanks
Bogdan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2008 5:52:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogdan1980

Ricardo

That's great. Thanks for the detailed discription. Llamada is one thing I had a question about . I'm guessing that it is a call for a singer to enter and it is usually played as a change from E to F major chord. Is that right?

What about escobilla? What is the purpose of it?

Thanks
Bogdan

The llamada is purely rhythmic, and can be done with just an E chord. Of course you can do other chords too and make a nice resolution if you want, but not necessary.

The escobilla is the footwork section of the dance. You supply the dancer with music, either rhythm, falsetas, or something thematic and repetative, that builds on the dancer's rhythm. The solo de pies would be also like an escobilla, but with no music accompaniment, it is purely rhythmic. Just palmas or apagado (muted strumming).

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2008 21:43:31

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Ricardo)

Here is a video of some basic "escobilla" material for solea. Nothing too fancy, just a nice bed for the dancer to build on.....

Escobilla Material Example

Hope it helps.

Jason

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2008 23:52:44

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

Nice Stuff Jason, very generous of you

I also uploaded a audio example for Bogdan (and anyone else interested) ( i been giving u such a hard time on polotics lately i feeled i should make an effort

)

Audio Example

Escobilla ending with llamada (its another pretty typical way of playing it..rithmical continous rasqueado for the whole first 10 beats on E) .

next the resolving chords for the second part of the llamada (I think of it as answer and call in rithm....first u ask a question and it feels left in the air for a split sec ...then u close it by answering and erasing any doubt lol i sound so profund

...)...this is a personal test to myself to see if i can describe and converse rithmical ideas in words... comes in handy when talking to dancers...

dont worry

i dont get what i just said either

..i need to practice my words placement a litlle more

so in this audio the llamada goes for 2 compases after the llamada u can hear it progress into a slow buleria ....(llamada always starts on 1 and ends on 10)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 0:25:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

Cool man, is that the guitar you guys were talking about?? Looks like a Santos peghead turbo cutaway with tuner!

Does it have a pick-up too?

I read that second sentence you wrote as "just a nice bed for the dancer to ...LIE in..."

It is cool how the first 4 compases or so are solea, then you jump into bulerias so the count "1" of Solea becomes "12" of bulerias. That kind of thing happens a lot in escobillas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 0:28:12

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Ricardo)

I should have known you would pick up on the "bed" reference......

This is my cutaway blanca. It's not the "Hypermodern" design that Glenn is building exclusively now. I ordered a cutaway to play latin stuff on last year. It has a dynamic microphone inside wired to an endpin jack. I hate pickups.....Sabine Tuner stuck on the side..... It comes in handy playing Solea when Jesus Montoya is singing too. 9 por Ariba.....no problem

I love this guitar, but Nigel's new blanca blows this one away. Something crazy going on with the hypermodern thing..... they are consistently wicked.

Yes indeed, in solea escobilla there is often a shift from one feel to the other. That's really what the point of the lesson was. The arpeggio section in the middle is just a super basic solea arpeggio compas in double time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 0:50:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

It comes in handy playing Solea when Jesus Montoya is singing too. 9 por Ariba.....no problem

Hypermodern sounds cool. I might be torn between that and the "ultratrad" model...

Maybe I should hold out for the "I-Guitar".

quote:

The arpeggio section in the middle is just a super basic solea arpeggio compas in double time.

I still need to work on my "hyper basic" solea arps at half time!

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 0:58:45

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Florian)

Hey Flo,

Thats not technically escobilla for solea. You are already in bulerias. A lot of players jump ahead to this, but there is a whole lot of super funky things to do in solea BEFORE you double the time...... Maybe I'm just getting old

Sounds good though, and it is where things inevitably end up going in an escobilla.

You forgot the part where the dancer stops and tells you that you are playing it too fast with an insulting look of disgust.....thats my favorite part of an escobilla.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 1:15:55

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Hypermodern sounds cool. I might be torn between that and the "ultratrad" model... Maybe I should hold out for the "I-Guitar".

I still need to work on my "hyper basic" solea arps at half time!

That's funny...... The iGuitar.....hurry tradmark it.....damn Steve Jobs beat us to it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 1:19:54

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

Hey Flo,

Thats not technically escobilla for solea. You are already in bulerias. A lot of players jump ahead to this, but there is a whole lot of super funky things to do in solea BEFORE you double the time...... Maybe I'm just getting old

oh u right ...but we still refer to it as escobila..but ofcourse technically u are right..we dont jump ahead we do the solea one too i just setelled on this part of the escobilla for an example cause it had a llamada...to give reference on llamada and how it comes in.

ok heres the same solea escobilla before the timing shift...Audio

quote:

You forgot the part where the dancer stops and tells you that you are playing it too fast with an insulting look of disgust.....thats my favorite part of an escobilla.

hehe no atm we going trough this poloticaly correct stage where we pretend we take blame ourselfs...but we both know in our minds its fake and in our heads we still blame the other person...

nothing funnyer then a room full of self involved people all trying to pretend they low maintenence

i cant see it last long

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 1:47:04

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
but we still refer to it as escobila...isnt that how u refer to it there ? timing shifts into buleria but its still part of the escobilla

Yes. We refer to it as escobilla, but it's nice to differentiate between the feel of solea and the double-time(bulerias) feel. It has been the rage in flamenco since Manuela Carasco started doing it many years ago.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 2:01:06

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

ofcourse..i should have specified u right

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 2:02:23

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Florian)

Actualy a quic question Jason, while i have u here

..i asked everyone else this allready

for that llamada in my first Audio where it is almost continous rasqueado for 10 counts...if u wanted to get it perfectly loud..perfectly even without the accent, just continous and intense...

what rasqueado combination would u use ?

i use P up M down I down repeat....but i am open to all your ideas..( if i can get more even and intense with another combination i wana try it) i remember u had some mean rasqueados in your videos..my focus is on absolute contiuos feel..so theres absolute no brake or accent in the continuity of that long rasqueado...what would u use ?

heres an Example of what effect i am after..but without the accents ...just conituos...what would u use ?

theres 2 guitars in there but I will get this effect if it kills me.. (Ricardo we talked about this but this is a good example of the efect i was refering too before)

Example

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 2:06:02

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Florian)

The meanest and loudest is just all fingers down and thumb up.... CaveMan style. You can do it really fast with practice.

I would in that situation though probably use up with the thumb, down with a+m,up with the thumb. Abanico. To get more attack, you put your hand deeper into the "sausage grinder". Aim for the back of the guitar....... The strings have to slap the frets to get that effect.

Pedro Cortes says to eat lots of red meat!

Jason

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 2:29:43

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

CaveMan style

lol i was hoping u wouldnt say that

i used to do it alot and used to kill my nails and my hands were so raved up after that i couldnt go straight into a falseta after my hands were a writeoff for about 2 compases lol..its so uncivilized

quote:

I would in that situation thought probably use up with the thumb, down with a+m,up with the thumb. Abanico. To get more attack, you put your hand deeper into the "sausage grinder". Aim for the back of the guitar....... The strings have to slap the frets to get that effect

going to work towards the effect with this..Mark and a few other people were also suggesting this.....

ok

..i know i am repeating myself but one last time lol its very very important to me ( most important thing in the world right now) that i have it right and u probably allready answered the question i apologise for repeating the same question but i dont wanna leave any room for doubt lol cause at the moment in my head could be any of the 2 options u gave me...what do u think the most likely combination that was used for audio Example i posted ? the effect is perfectly the one i want..

i just dont wanna practice the wrong one for ages and realize i cant get the exact dynamics because i picked the wrong one for this effect....and then i start questioning the choice of rasqueado instead of myself....if i know i am doing the same technique for sure..the effect il get..il practice it till i get it, il figure it out...just as long as i am sure of the fingering..

do you think Thumb up and A+M down was used for this ?..i know u not psychic and probably cant tell me 100% certain but i am settling for your closest gues..sorry again if u allready answered the question but id rather look like a foul now then practice the wrong thing for months cause i didnt clarifie for myself lol

I have nothing but the highest admiration, love and respect for you but if you give me the wrong finger combination il sue your a*s just the same

thank you maestro

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 2:39:50

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Florian)

It sounds like abanico to me......... up-P,down m+a,up P
Dig in....

CaveMan style was in response to your description of loud and consistent before I listened to the example.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 9:24:24

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Ricardo)

http://moocowmusic.com/

Check it out. I got an i phone recently and downloaded a metronome app that has programable accents. Also a tuner app and some other crazy stuff. -just amazing stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Maybe I should hold out for the "I-Guitar".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 9:38:22

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Solea composition (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

CaveMan style was in response to your description of loud and consistent before I listened to the example.

thanks alot mate..i had a feeling that was the case but ....wasent sure

Mark whats this a tuner that u put in your phone ? sounds like a good thing to have...

had a look
damn i dont have a itune phone

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 11:18:25

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

http://www.sonzea.com/StayInTune/index.html

If you can get an i phone from Apple -get it. There's a ton of cool music applications that can run on it. Some are free. Some cost a dollar. almost all are under 10.00
I paid two bucks for the metronome.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2008 12:32:46

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea composition (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Guys

Thank you all for posting examples and explaining things. Thanks Jason, that's very useful and informative. Florian I apreciate that too , and of course thanks to Ricardo.

I've been on a long business trip this past week hence couldn't respond to all on time. This week more travel. And then I'll try to schedule another session with you Ricardo. I've practiced this thing to death now. So hopefully we can make a bit of progress.

Thanks again

Bogdan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 17 2008 6:31:21