RE: America

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RE: America

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

I guess you are also rebeling against what u must have been trough and just the mention of the word socialism sends you up the walls lol and considering what u must have been trough i guess its understandable

.

USSR is a textbook example of Utopian society. And while there are evils in all systems just because they are run by humans (like you rightfully pointed out) socialism tends to regress to communism. Some socialist tenets have worked in a few countries (perhaps Spain is one of them) because the right to private property has been respected. Not so in USSR. If you own something you care about it. Private property and small business go hand in hand, which in turn involves the need for free market and competition. These principles are critical to thriving economy. My fear is, that just as I escaped to a country that has all these, it's been ripped out from people's hands by a few who expect everything delivered to them on a silver platter and believe in entitlement.

I enjoyed the debate Florian. It's hard to have one in US these days without being accused of racism.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 9:12:09

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

I guess you are also rebeling against what u must have been trough and just the mention of the word socialism sends you up the walls lol and considering what u must have been trough i guess its understandable

True, that's why it's so frustrating when Hollywood and the like scream about socialism and what's best for this country while being completely detached from reality.

I enjoyed the debate too Florian. It's hard to have one these days in US without being accused of racism.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 9:14:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Bogdan, I think you are seing everything as either black or white and it makes your argumentation weak. You are right in saying that you know things others dont know, because you grew up in the USSR, but a lot of us have been brought up in other systems. Systems very far from USSR or USA and I think that we know things that you dont know or wont see.
What you call socialism is not even being considered socialism in most northern european countries and many other places as well. Its called center politics and its what everyone is doing now. Sometimes they are called Socialdemocrats and sometimes they are called liberals. In the end its all the same. Something in between. I dont even think the Spanish socialist party is socialist. No way. They believe in some kind of free market economy as the base of the whole story. Thats not socialism. It center politics. and its not what you describe as socialism. There is a world between your two extremist wievs and many of us are living in that world and some of these countries have a much stronger economy than the USA.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 10:12:18

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

The same post is below. I deleted this to avoid a duplicate post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 10:54:15

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I tried posting this once, but it didn't come up so here it is again.

Florian, I have not seen the movie by Michael Moore. I’m not really a fan of his either. I saw several hours of discussion about the movie with MD’s and Moore when he was promoting it. He has protested the way health insurers have treated their customers in the past—i. e., how they deny treatment to people who need it and who are paying for health insurance. It is a big problem and happens for a variety of reasons. Of all these reasons health insurance companies attempting to increase their profits by refusing to pay for treatment is the most reprehensible. Moore promotes socialized medicine as an alternative to the current system of health insurance which I doubt will happen since politicians are not even considering it. Socializing the medical system could easily double income tax and would lower health care standards. The two presidential candidates are promoting improvements to the current system of health insurance coverage and the means by which individuals who are not insured would pay into this system to obtain coverage. There is already an enormous amount of socialism in the USA--this would take it an additional step in the direction of socialism without eliminating the current system and replacing it with socialism (although some people would disagree with this statement).

I forgot to mention that in the Mental Health Care system people can even qualify for spending money (about $600 minimum per month of Social Security Disability benefits) that they can use at their discretion. I know someone who lived in a $100,000 house, had free health care (all health care costs are covered for indigent MH patients including dental) free heat and food and he used his SS to buy a new car. This is only part of what people can get for nothing in the USA. So why didn’t Michael Moore mention cases like this. As I said the US is already a socialist nation—it’s a question of how much more socialism we’ll have.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 11:05:27

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

I enjoyed the debate too Florian. It's hard to have one these days in US without being accused of racism.

well i am sorry to hear that..when that happens its usualy because the other person has run out of arguments

everyperson should be able to discus individual ideas about what they want from theyr society without beeing labeled, or singled out for theyr opinions..

i dont fully agree with some of your views but i totaly sympathise with where your views come from its totaly understandable..why u feel the way u feel

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 11:06:04

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

oooppss

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 11:17:28

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Yeah Guys, Its been a good debate. Its good to be able to discuss without getting into insults etc. and we all have different backgrounds.
As someone said "I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll die defending your right to express it"
Bogden- I do think that your idea of socialism and mine are different though and considering your upbringing I can understand. You have said Communism where you could better use Socialism and Vice versa in your posts and so it seems you think them to be the same. "a little socialism" is not the same as "a little communism" in my opinion.

Spain is a socialist state (now) and as Flo says, some social health care and education are good things to have in a wealthy society. Of course in any socialist society there are going to be dead beats who abuse the system...this makes me angry too, and it was something I hated about living in the Uk.
However when you say you would rather pay for an MRI out of your own pocket than go to a state doctor, you are talking from an extremely privilidged position that allows you to make that choice.

quote:

what gets me is richer pay more is if there were to be punished for their success.

This is where I find fault in your argument. You have come from a society where opportunity was very difficult to a society where you can work hard and achieve. It is clear from your posts you have come from a poor situation and worked very hard indeed to make a good life...Well done...Congratulations...you have made success due to your effort. Some of that is due to America but dont put yourself down..al ot of that comes from YOU.
So why should you give anything to anyone who hasnt worked for it. You will never be a dead beat so you cant see how someone else could be unless they chose it! I moved to Spain and made a living too but its not because Spain is socialist...its because I worked hard as well....but I know lots of Spanish that dont have the same education as me or business knowledge etc. so I have an advantage. One has to consider a higher question. Is it acceptable in the richest country in the world to see your neighbours dying in the streets of hunger or disease?...or is it better to have every man for himself?

Taxation is not a punishment, its a payment for your opportunity to make money so I dont disagree with paying fair taxes (ie a reasonable portion of what you earn, and only being taxed once). However, like you, i dont think it should be the individual wage earners that support the tax burden.
My problem is with the MEGA rich who earn millions and pay relatively no tax.

Of course I understand corporations employ thousands of people and they offer health benefits to their workers, but does mean they should get massive tax breaks. A million dollars piled up is about 2 meters high. When a Rothschild died recently, he left a fortune nearly 3 KM high. Now tell me...how can you justify that sort of wealth when kids cant get education and mental patients have to resort to street crime to survive because there are no institutions to put them in? This is the unfairness of capitalism without social responsibility. I am not saying you should have communist re-distribution of wealth but I don't believe that bankers with 500 million dollars dont owe a lot to the communities that made them rich. The mega rich should be taxed highly after several million dollars of personal wealth, they will still be mega rich!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 11:22:34

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

What you call socialism is not even being considered socialism in most northern european countries and many other places as well. Its called center politics and its what everyone is doing now

When I speak of socialism I speak of what was used as principles to building soviet empire in 1917, which then escallated into totalitarian society. Concepts of wealth redistribution, eqiality, and welfare are all built in and they are all utopian.
Liberal policies accepted in some European countries are not a justification for adoption of such policies in countries where they are not needed. Socialism means collective government where everyone works for the good of the majority. Commusim is just a step forward to a classless society. Both ideas are idealistic and utopian.
And Anders, do we really know everything there is to know about the extent (good and bad) of the liberal policies in the countries you talk about?

For some reason it takes a while to load a comment. Are we being moderated?
And for the comment below: lack of reasoning through blanket statements is a typical left wing policy. With such addition to this debate I will refrain from more comments because they may escalate into personal attacks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 12:00:58

El Camino

Posts: 59
Joined: Jan. 14 2008

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Its been a bit of an eye opener for me this thread , theres seems to be a lot of support for macain , but from where i am sitting this is the biggest no brainer of all time . Macain has gone from one bad argument to another and his choice of running mate was astoundingly bad . What we dont need right now is another war monger.

Obama all the way

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 12:24:43

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

Taxation is not a punishment, its a payment for your opportunity to make money so I dont disagree with paying fair taxes (ie a reasonable portion of what you earn, and only being taxed once).

So why not flat tax? And no I don't have a problem with mega rich. What they have is their burden not yours or mine. And it's not for us to decide what they should do with their money.

I don't consider more education an advantage in terms of opportunities. I have a PhD and I work for a large engineering/construction company. We start people in the field at 10-12$ and hour without much education. We provide them training, which if they stick to will make them journeymen which pays $30 an hour. If they excel they can become field supervision at much higher pay and will make more than I would make as a professor in a university. In other words everyone can make it if they are willing to work. And my education didn't get me more money than those guys who chose not to finish college but go into construction.

Tax breaks are fine to me if the money is used in productive ways like R&D and employee retention. And that's exactly what I've talking about and that's how such companies give back. That's plenty to me. I don't think we should tax them more to punish their success and give what they made to those who chose not to go to school or excell in their jobs.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 12:36:43

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

For some reason it takes a while to load a comment. Are we being moderated?

Bogdan.
All the uploaded posts here are re-directed first to the KGB for examination, for which they pay a small amount to help keep the site going.

This year I went for a free eye examination at a local opticians shop.
The optician found something wrong and contacted the central hospital and faxed my details over.
I went up and was examined by a specialist free of charge who was concerned about my blood pressure.
I was then admitted to a centrally heated and beautifully clean small ward (8 beds although only 4 beds occupied at the time).
Each bed unit had TV/Radio/Telephone and Internet connection.

Every morning a menu was given and you could choose all your meals for the day.
Inbetween there were trollys coming round with tea and coffee and biscuits etc.

I was seen twice a day by specialists, given blood tests, urine tests, X-Ray, ECG, Kidney Scan, Heart Echo-Scan and MRI along with Retinal Scans and a range of Optometric tests, all with highly trained technicians and nurses.

This took a week, all at no charge.

This is Socialism.

The main idea is to get you back into circulation, being productive and thus paying your fair share of taxes.
What's wrong with that idea?

Tom Farmer and Bob Soutar are fellow Scots who are now multi-millionaires from their Car Repair and Bus Network companies respectively.
Both of them had no need to leave Scotland because of any tax issues, in fact both are very sincere and decent people who support charities and various social organisations with a lot of money.

There are heaps of very rich people in Scotland, who have seen no need to move away, but still live in the community.

I think you've had bad experiences from your early days in the Soviet system.

Most Western European democrarcies are nothing like that at all.

Great discussion BTW!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 13:33:10

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

I don't think we should tax them more to punish their success and give what they made to those who chose not to go to school or excell in their jobs.

Who's proposing we do that exactly?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 22:24:04

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I must say..

I am really proud that we have been able to get trough this and discuss sencitive issues and differences of opinions without anyone getting upset or personal..i gues its a testament to the kind of members we have here.

( i was holding my breath thiking...any second now

) but i am glad i was wrong

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 23:07:01

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Yeah, they're a dangerous lot those deadbeats. I've been hearing for years how they're going to ruin the world, and the worst part is that they think it's hilarious! It's bad enough to have to get up and go to work every day, but when I think about those Deadbeats laughing at the rest of us... Grrrr...

Ideologies are nearly always about saving us from ourselves: from the inevitable fate brought on by our very condition as human beings. It all depends on what part of human nature you want to prohibit. I think it makes a whole lot more sense at this time to shift the emphasis from the powerful (and power hungry) to other sectors of society. Basing one's ideology on criticism of others (deadbeats) doesn't seem like a good idea to me. People should worry about their own problems, because we've all got plenty of faults. At this stage of the game of civilization, I think we can easily afford to be a little more generous.

You ever know someone with lots of money but is a real tightwad? Maybe you go to a party at their house and you don't even get anything to drink. These are the same people that I always hear complaining about the deadbeats. Just to run with the metaphor, I'll say that I certainly don't go to anyone's house for a handout, but the best treatment I've ever received has consistently been from people that certainly aren't rich or powerful.

Hello? Weapons of mass destruction...?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 23:58:02

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogdan1980
lack of reasoning through blanket statements is a typical left wing policy.

You've just made a stereotype and a sweeping generalization in one stroke

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2008 4:02:17

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

All the uploaded posts here are re-directed first to the KGB for examination, for which they pay a small amount to help keep the site going.

I knew it!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2008 5:59:38

DOKI

Posts: 2
Joined: Sep. 26 2008

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hi Bogdan1980 ,this is Doki 1942
you continue to make yourself heard..there is GOOD reason in your thinking. you and I will vote the same. you felt something from your years in the ukraine and I felt something from my life in america. louisianaCAN BE PROUD OF YOU. i never had insurance PROTECTION, if i were sick i healed my own body and mind. flamenco is something like that to me. or maybe i should say the guitar is consolation enough. life is not a party.
never wil be. we come here alone, we leave alone. I never thought some one
owed me a living. I will leave in the not to distant future with enough money to
bury me. that is the money i have put back after 66 years of wandering. No car in ther garage , no house to pay for no childeren to not like. a flamenco guitar
that i just had enough money for is the most valuable thing i own. BUT I AM
HAPPY IN MY MINOR CHORD LIFE AND I WISH OTHERS NEEDED LESS TO MAKE THEMSELVES PLEASED. One last thing, i have lived in holland for
15 years. i got there by selling my motorcyle. In (zombieland)europe i witness
the effects of social democracy. give me the suffering of america as it was for me
If people will desire europe as refuge with their social programs..Let them come. the poorest will have as much money as i had WHEN I TOOK THE TRIP.
WISE UP GUYS LET AMERICA BE AMERICA DON'T CLAIM YOUR SOCIAL PROGRAMS WILL MAKE A BETTER WORLD. YOUR GIVING THOSE IN AMERICA THE WRONG
MESSAGE BY YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE. EUROPE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE USA GO DOWN..WELL NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY.
SEE YA......

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 4:43:04

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

WISE UP GUYS LET AMERICA BE AMERICA DON'T CLAIM YOUR SOCIAL PROGRAMS WILL MAKE A BETTER WORLD. YOUR GIVING THOSE IN AMERICA THE WRONG
MESSAGE BY YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE. EUROPE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE USA GO DOWN..WELL NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY.
SEE YA......

out of respect for your age i am going to leave those comments alone but.. wow

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 6:30:08

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

zombieland.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 6:59:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to koella)

**** now we gonna have to start over again and plan for another 8 years cause hes on to us

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 7:03:56

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: America (in reply to DOKI)

quote:

WISE UP GUYS LET AMERICA BE AMERICA DON'T CLAIM YOUR SOCIAL PROGRAMS WILL MAKE A BETTER WORLD. YOUR GIVING THOSE IN AMERICA THE WRONG
MESSAGE BY YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE. EUROPE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE USA GO DOWN..WELL NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY.
SEE YA......

Doki,
Relax man,
Nobody here in Europe would ever want America to be anything less than America.
Where are we gonna go on holiday for a start?

I must admit, I love the films, the music and literature that's come out of the USA , but I think you've really gotta be born there to survive...
When I was 26 I spent some great times there and was offered a job in Dallas.
I had to think about it, and to me the States were like this...

Imagine all the electronic things in your house..
Things like the radio, the HiFi, the TV, Central Heating/Air Conditioning etc..

Now imagine everything turned up to MAX!

Sadly, the thought was too terrifying for me, so had to decline and come back to my wee hoose overlooking the North Sea.

Norman....the Government here are onto the Deadbeats..

One guy who was claiming sickness benefit for a bad back was secretly filmed in a Social Security "sting" of having a part-time job with a furniture removals company and playing football on a Saturday afternoon.

So....

Gordon Brown has introduced a new policy, where the people claiming to be too sick to work are going to be tested by Government doctors, instead of their own.

It put me in mind of the WW2 Army induction doctors where you stood in line and the doctor made you say "AAAh" and depressed the back of your tongue with a spatula, then made you drop your underpants and lifted your balls with the spatula and made you cough twice, before announcing "100 percent A1 fit for Duty"...
He then moved up the line and repeated the same tests with the same spatula..

So now all the benefit seekers are getting tipped out of their wheelchairs and made to crawl 25 feet before being pronounced A1 fit for work.

Hey...we need more tax revenue after spending hundreds of billions baling out the Banks!!

Europe and Britain are pretty buggered up..
But I still like it just the same..

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 13:10:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

damn ron u got your happy pills on tonight lol i almost peed my pants reading your post ...

quote:

So now all the benefit seekers are getting tipped out of their wheelchairs and made to crawl 25 feet before being pronounced A1 fit for work

that's inhuman and a litlle cold... in Australia we have a litlle more respect for the phisically disabled...we dont make them get up, they can remain seated for the tests..

We run fire drills without informing the people on the wheelchairs that they are false alarms and everybody runs and leaves them there, if they are real they will just remain there crying and screaming of desperation thinking they are going to burn alive if they are fake they will get up and run along with you then 10 minutes later we came back in and say " its ok ...

stop crying..it was just a test..congratulations...you passed, you really are disable and therefore entitled to the sick benefit"

Australia is a pretty generous country we will give everyone everything they need, we care about you........just dont lie to us

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2008 22:58:40

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: America (in reply to Florian)

Let's settle this argument once and for all...
Which one is better? Left (wing) or right?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 2:00:06

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: America (in reply to Florian)

quote:

We run fire drills without informing the people on the wheelchairs that they are false alarms and everybody runs and leaves them there

...I'm moving to Australia

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 2:15:16

Jan Willem

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

WISE UP GUYS LET AMERICA BE AMERICA DON'T CLAIM YOUR SOCIAL PROGRAMS WILL MAKE A BETTER WORLD. YOUR GIVING THOSE IN AMERICA THE WRONG
MESSAGE BY YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE. EUROPE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE USA GO DOWN..WELL NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY.
SEE YA......

:-). The last thing we want is you guys getting down! don't you know that "USA is THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD" :-). (say it like only an american can say it )

Jw

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 3:02:54

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to andresito)

quote:

Let's settle this argument once and for all...
Which one is better? Left (wing) or right?

ok i know stalin.. whos the other guy ??!

looks like a homeboy with atitude ..."VIVA LA RASSSSSSSSSSA

"

serious who is he ? i've seen him before...should i know this ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 7:37:21

Jan Willem

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

It's badboy Pinochet. President of Chili after a coup supported by the CIA. Trew people in to the sea with helicopters and so on... Not the first dictator brought to power by the US and A...cough saddam cough. (etc etc)

He replaced the well known communist leader Allende who was murdered by.....have a guess.... It chocked the whole world, except of course his far northern neighbours.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 7:52:11

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Jan Willem)

AUUUUUUUUUU ofcourse....lovley guy

hes also the first and only president i have ever seen with sunglasses on

hes not just a bad ass but hes cool too..hes got bling bling flaunting his watch and glases..i dig it lol

honestly ..just look at the guy anybody that poses like that for a photo ..u just know hes gonna be a dic*head

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 8:42:48

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

Let's settle this argument once and for all...
Which one is better? Left (wing) or right?

Excellent point, Andresito. It really is the extremes that should be avoided. Gives new credence to the saying "All in moderation". There is no perfect system. Ask the Chinese, who seem to be veering towards the Capitalist end of the spectrum.

What bugs me about the current climate in the USA, is how Orwellian the path we're on seems.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2008 13:54:49