Advice re arranging a piece please!!

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Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

Advice re arranging a piece please!!

Hi guys,

So I'm working on some Solea - got quite a lot of falsetas, simple but beautiful (if I can play them!) and I want to put them together to play something at the next London Pena Juerga. I tried out various arrangements of the order of the different bits last night and I'm worried about it making 'musical sense'.

I picked up a comment from one of Ricardo's youtube vids where he says that is the correct way to make up a piece - from separate disjointed sections. I know that's true, but I'm still thinking even then shouldn't the piece have some sort of structure, so that it makes 'music', not just one bit after another. I'm wondering if it's those sort of judgements of taste that might make one player more musical than another (rather than just technically better.)

First I tried separating out all the arpegio bits and putting just one in between other techniques - sort of varying techniques, and therefore sound. But that just sounded terribly bitty.

So then I put two or three compas of arpegio near the beginning making a sort of section, and then another section of different arpegio bits near the end. And I tried to make the overall piece vary in dynamics - you know, pretty sections split up by strong percussive sections. That felt better to me, but I'm not really sure.

OK so please help! Am I doing the right sort of thing? Am I worrying too much about structure, and am too rooted in classical theories of structure? Shall I just play it differently every time? (That's probably the right answer!)

Anyway I'd really appreciate hearing how you guys put things together.

Thanks all.

A
xx

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 0:16:46

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to Ailsa)

Hi Ailsa,
I'm no expert, but from what I've listened to...
If you are playing solo, then just arrange the whole thing the way you like best.
If you listen to say, Paco Peña for instance you can hear an intro section, middle part and he likes to end with speeding up and using louder, more rhythmic stuff like alzapua and plenty rasgueado etc.

This form of arrangement tends to make more sense to a "general" audience I think (and they can tell when the piece is finished and it's safe to applaud

)
Tremolo is good for "creating a new paragraph" and splitting up two sections of playing I think.

My 2 cents anyway.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 0:56:44

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to Ailsa)

you should upload it ..we will be able to be more specific in our suggestions and tell you if it makes musical sence.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 3:06:32

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to Ailsa)

Hi Ailsa,

quote:

I know that's true, but I'm still thinking even then shouldn't the piece have some sort of structure, so that it makes 'music', not just one bit after another.

Of course! Varying techniques or positions on the neck are two ways of keeping things interesting. I like to think in terms of intensity, for example when you're speaking and you want to be aware of breathing and using the tone of your voice to greater effect. On the guitar, "intensity" could be created by lots of things. In harmony, it's called tension, for example. When people don't like virtuoso playing, it's usually because they feel overwhelmed, as if the guitarist isn't giving them time to assimilate. So, depending on what you want to convey, there should be some room to breathe in there, as well.

One of the best things I ever heard about the guitar was said to me by someone who knew nothing about music (except how to appreciate it,

). She had been telling me how much she liked Paco de Lucía, and when I started playing some of his music she said, "See, his music tells a story!"

But it's not a good idea to spend too much time worrying about how other people are going to react to your music. As Ron said, just do what you like best! Good luck and I hope we get to hear something from you.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 4:10:28

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to Ailsa)

I know a hell of a lot of Soleares falsettas which I tend to jumble up in any order I fancy because I am usually playing to non-afficiandos. Two rules I always stick to though are -
1) start with an introdution of compas so that true believers know that a soleares is underway.
2) Play your EASIEST falsettas FIRST. That way, if nerves get the better of you, you are less likely to fluff them.

I only ever start with something slow and quiet if I am playing through a PA to a silnet audience that is paying attention.

I agree with Ron that you need to signal to end of the piece with something obvious.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 6:19:17

MarkMc

Posts: 121
Joined: Oct. 1 2005
From: Wilsonville, Oregon

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to Ailsa)

Hi Alisa,

I did the same thing myself a few months back. I think what helped me decide was to keep similar stlyes/schools together. I think it fits better (at least to me) to keep old school falsetas together rather than mix old school with new school. For instance, I pieced together a soleares using Sabicas falsetas and falsetas from some older Paco Pena soleas. These falsetas seemed to fit together nicely(esp. since PP used lot's of older school falsetas like Sabicas & N. Ricardo) rather than piecing some Sabicas falsetas with some more modern ones like from Rafael Riqueni or whomever (again just my opinion) Same with sticking to similar styles (Jerez, Moron etc)

I also agree about having a beginning, middle and an end.

Hope this helps (I'm no expert, I've only been studying flamenco for about 3 years now myself)

Have fun,
Mark

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-MarkMc

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 14:11:30

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Advice re arranging a piece please!! (in reply to MarkMc)

Hi everyone, thanks so much. I'll go back to it and take another look. I know it sounds obvious but I hadn't thought about beginning-middle-end!! And telling a story - of course, because music is a form of communication, great idea.

I also like the idea of making the first few compas obviously Solea, to help people get into the groove. Particular as my playing is not yet that secure! Listeners need all the help they can get.

And starting with something easy to get myself into it as well.

Mark I know what you mean about mixing styles and it's something I've wondered about.

Anyway thanks again everyone and I'll let you know how I get on