To Ramzi and Deyo (and other medicos)

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

To Ramzi and Deyo (and other medicos)

I've got this (as my Mother would call) "filthy" habit of biting the hard skin that forms around my fingernails.
I notice other guitarists do it as well (including Paco Peña

)

However, if I bite the loose and flaking hard skin that forms around my left hand thumbnail, a few days later I get 5 or 6 pinhead size itchy spots at the bottom of my thumb.
Over the next few days they get bigger and quite painful and take about 2 weeks or so to go away unless I take drastic action and lance them and plunge my thumb into disinfectant, before covering my thumb in a plaster.

Being stupid, I sometimes find myself unconsciously nibbling away and the same thing happens.

The bit that gets me is that the spots start in EXACTLY the same area (at the base of the thumb) and then I've got to go through it all again.

Is this "Post Traumatic Type 2 Genital Herpes of the Thumb" or what???

I eagerly await your learned consideration of what is going on here!!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 20:52:45

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

That's gross.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 21:05:00

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

If it was Herpes virus of any type that affected you that soon, you most likely would have other more serious issues to be concerned about, ie, mouth sores, eye infection, hearing loss, vertigo, vomiting, nerve loss, facial pain, etc.

What doesn't make sense is that lancing would relieve the pain, also that this happens after you bite skin off the thumb near the nail. Type 2 herpes would only make sense if you had sores on other areas that the base of your thumb was contacting when the blisters were weaping....

You might ask your doctor and see if antiviral therapy would help.

Do the blisters and area burn?

If you seriously believe this is a herpes virus, then don't mess around, especially if you have had the Herpes Varicella or Zoster or both virus. It can damage more than your thumb....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 21:49:05

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 16:58:09

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 22:01:21

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Is this "Post Traumatic Type 2 Genital Herpes of the Thumb" or what???

If it is herpes it's more likely to of the Type 1 variety if I remember correctly, and if it does infect the finger I think it's referred to as herpes whitlow. PTSD? Maybe, or you could just be reintroducing the virus from a sore around your lips. Haven't noticed one of those have you?

Another bug to consider is staph aureus. There's an increase of cases of infection with the methicillin resistant variety locally.

On a side note, an ongoing joke here is of the patient that comes in gyrating his arm in a big circular motion and states "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this", to which the doc replies "well stop doing that!"

I digress!!! Seriously tho, stop putting your fingers in your mouth.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 6:28:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Francisco)

quote:

"Post Traumatic Type 2 Genital Herpes of the Thumb"

I just made that up on the spur of the moment so folk would think I'm educated and knowledgeable about obscure medical matters.
It would have sounded even better in Latin, but alas I don't know any.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 9:35:23

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

There's no smoke without fire...is there something you would like to share with us...errrrr....I mean tell us about?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 9:39:21

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

"Post Traumatic Type 2 Genital Herpes of the Thumb"

I just made that up on the spur of the moment so folk would think I'm educated and knowledgeable about obscure medical matters.
It would have sounded even better in Latin, but alas I don't know any.

Well Ron not bad for making something up ... Francisco may have nailed it. Review the following link

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic754.htm

However this means you have to be introducing the virus into an open sore on your hand, ie the finger chewing. The virus may come from your mouth however more likely it would come from contact with open herpes sores on other parts of your body you might handle. If from the mouth you would need to have weeping fever blisters or open mouth sores.

I still suggest considering the possibility of the Herpes Varicella Zoster virus being a player here. If you have had chickenpox then you have the varicella virus for life. If you have had the shingles then you have experienced the varicella virus reappearing as the zoster virus. Although a different type of herpes than type 1, 2, etc it is not uncommon to see VZV present in herpes type 1 and 2 patients. Frequent reoccurances of type 1 or 2 may be a warning sign that the VZV has become active. Researchers and leading doctors are now agreeing that VZV can do nerve damage without ever appearing as shingle blisters. Blisters may appear from other types of herpes fooling doctors into treating just that type of herpes still allowing the VZV to do nerve damage.

This is not science fiction or a joke. VZV can damage nerves in the brain causing white matter, nerves in the inner ear causing equilibrium issues, and the Trigeminal nerve causing unbearable pain. I know this from 10 years of first hand experience and regular visits to world famous Neurologist and Neuro-otologist. What you may have can probably easily be treated with antiviral meds, but if left unattended might develop into more than a painful thumb.

Do take this seriously and read up on this and discuss this with your doctor and ask about antiviral treatment. Acyclovir is common and salt of Acyclovir or Valtrex is sometimes more effective.

Here is another informative link.

http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/virol/herpes.htm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 12:12:43

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Samarto)

Hmmm...Thanks for the info Samarto. A bit alarming though!
I don't have any sores, cold sores or mouth ulcers or anything anywhere.
Nor do I feel ill or ever had any diagnosis of Herpes of any kind.
I've never had shingles nor chickenpox, though I think I was vaccinated for that and other stuff as a kid.
This has been going on for a few years now and maybe happen a couple of times a year if I forget and start worrying away at the thick/dead skin.
It only ever happens with that thumb!
What I thought it was, was that sometimes biting the hard skin causes the tear to "run" slightly lifting a fragment of fresh/new skin and forming a tiny wound exposing it to germs present on the teeth and saliva.
What puzzled me most was that this always affected the same area on the other side of the thumb and about 1.5" away from the entry point of any possible infection.
I can't really see Herpes as being possible, as I've cut and nicked my fingers heaps of times when doing DIY etc and instinctively cussed and stuck them in my gob as you do at the time....also had a tooth out which left an open wound.
So why didn't the virus or whatever enter there or at any other times?
The last time it happened was about 6 months ago and I have no symptoms of anything and feel OK.

Any other nail/skin biters out there?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 12:47:57

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

With no history of herpes virus this does present a mystery, however maybe this is how the herpes virus manifest itself in your case. Next time it happens see a doctor and have it cultured.

The simple solution might be to find a way to break your finger biting habit. I found it strange that it is always in the same place which is indicitive of a herpes virus. Some herpes virus can be tranmitted by saliva, so I wouldn't rule it out, but with the lack of viral history, especially chickenpox, I wouldn't be overly concerned either.

Maybe other finger biters can offer a way to help you break this unsanitary habit and stop this problem.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 13:12:57

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

The pragmatic cure...

Stick yer thumb up yer bum!!!!

will it stop the sores...unlikely - but it'll stop you chewing the skin.

Peter the Geordie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 13:28:06

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron, Check out this link with photos and a short writeup. Does this look like what you have? Note that herpes virus tend to reoccur in the same place...

http://www.visualdxhealth.com/adult/herpeticWhitlow.htm

Is this a photo of your hand, Ron?

http://dermatlas.med.jhmi.edu/derm/IndexDisplay.cfm?ImageID=1422271044

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 14:13:37

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Samarto)

quote:

Is this a photo of your hand, Ron?

Not nearly as severe as that, though I suppose a bit similar in appearance but on a very much smaller scale (say 1cm diameter circle). Mind you I've had a similar looking sore from a tiny sliver of wood or metal (splinter) too, so it's hard to tell.
I must admit I never have any other symptoms like feeling unwell or anything, but it does make sense though, so if it occurs again I'll see the Doc.

Thanks Samarto,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 15:28:05

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

Hey Ron,

I'm still a second-year medical student, but I would have to say that the advice Samarto offered is quite valuable and logical.

I hope this does not turn out to be something serious. Let's see what Deyo has to say. However, it would be very helpful if you could provide a photo for us to have a look. Dermatologists are morphologists, as my professor used to say.

Keep us posted! Sorry I was not of much help.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 18:07:13

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

Dermatologists are morphologists, as my professor used to say.

Which means the outside can tell us a lot about the inside, Ron. You on any medication? Antibiotics or whatever? You didn't mention.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 19:21:07

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Ron. You on any medication? Antibiotics or whatever? You didn't mention.

Nope Simon....nothing at all.
Ah well...if you don't die if something I guess you'll die of something else.

This herpes simplex thing sounds logical to me since the outbreak always happens in the same place.

That's it!
I'm definitely cancelling my subscription to "The Nazi Dungeon Club" if they can't fully guarantee the quality of their staff.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 19:56:23

Stu

Posts: 2529
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron when I first read your post its almost as if i had written it.
I do nibble at various parts of my fingers and i do also (rarely) get really tiny little blister sort of things on my palm at the base of my thumb although Id never thought the 2 were connected and never actually noticed if they happened at a similar time or after id been nibbling. the pics above (the 2nd one anyway) looks kind of similar but no where near as severe. they are more like little itcy bites and really small. when i scratch them they break and have cleared up within a day or 2 and are rarely sore. I always just assumed it was some heat/skin irritation. I'll see what happens next time.

I have recently been biting the tips of my fingers as I seem to be redeveloping callusus akin to the ones i had when i played electric guitar. my callusus are the hardest theyve been for some years of flamenco playing. what could cause that sudden change???

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2008 11:17:57

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron and Stu, Watch this video ... it may help stop your finger biting. Herpes Whitlow is usually as Stu describes his, but it can get worse....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2008 13:28:54

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Samarto)

Samarto,
I must confess I watched the first 10 seconds and turned it off.
I have a personal policy of never watching horrible stuff.
Call it "head in the sand" syndrome or what, I don't care.
Watching horrible stuff weakens you as a person by replaying itself in your head at inappropriate times IMO.
That's why I never watch Horror or Gory or Pschycologically weird stuff.

My Father used to say, "There is enough horror in life without actively seeking it out or filling your mind with it, when there are so many of beautiful ideas and concepts that will inspire you and give you hope and spiritual strength".

I'm afraid I'm a disciple of that philosophy!

I know you are trying to be helpful here Samarto...but that's just me.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2008 19:33:59

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Stu)

Hi Stu,
Probably because fingering a nylon strung guitar requires much more force than an electric!

As for the sore on the hand...

"Zis visiting of ze spanking clubs vith ze big booby fraulines must stop immediately...

Or you vill be shot"...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2008 19:42:39

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: To Ramzi and Deyo (and other med... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Ron and Stu, Watch this video ... it may help stop your finger biting. Herpes Whitlow is usually as Stu describes his, but it can get worse....

OMG that was gross!