Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Can Females play flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

Can Females play flamenco?2 votes


visit her webpage and listen to her Bulerias....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:06:27
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto)1 votes
I'm sure she could play flamenco if that were her background, though you can tell it wasn't her major influence. She plays very well, though.

I think the problem is less flamenco and more with the guitar. Just doesn't interest women like it does men. Maybe most women just aren't into spending hours and hours alone working on technique. There are more women pianists though. Hmmm, dunno!

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:12:20
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to John O.) 
Check out Julia ... flamenco enough?



Scroll down on this link and listen to her bulerias

http://www.mariazemantauski.com/music.html

John O, Yes it is easy to tell she has a classical background. Many accomplished flamenco guitarist do also. I think several on this forum have classical backgrounds and others jazz and you can hear it in their playing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:24:55
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto)1 votes
Asking whether females, a.k.a. women, can play flamenco, is like asking whether bald men, fat adolescents or tall doctors can do so.

The question is either insulting or iggerant.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:51:50
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
quote:

Check out Julia ... flamenco enough?



Scroll down on this link and listen to her bulerias

http://www.mariazemantauski.com/music.html


Now THAT'S what I'm talking about, oh yes!

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:52:26
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

Asking whether females, a.k.a. women, can play flamenco, is like asking whether bald men, fat adolescents or tall doctors can do so.

The question is either insulting or iggerant.


The formulation of the question is important. They CAN just like anyone else when the interest is there, the question is whether the interest is there. If not, there's nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make them inferior. Men CAN clean up after themselves too, we just don't care enough to do it

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 14:55:07
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
quote:

John O, Yes it is easy to tell she has a classical background. Many accomplished flamenco guitarist do also. I think several on this forum have classical backgrounds and others jazz and you can hear it in their playing.


Definitely. If Maria where playing bulerias everyday she'd sound more similar to Julia. I'm sure Julia coundn't do the percussion like Maria right off the bat. It's what you're busy doing everyday that counts. Neither one is better or worse than the other.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:00:57
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

The question is either insulting or iggerant.


I agree and I posted this to make this point. Some believe that woman do not have the ability to play "real" flamenco ... I disagree! Yes females can play flamenco and many times with more feeling than men IMO.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:01:47
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to John O.) 
quote:

They CAN just like anyone else when the interest is there


There's more to it than that. I began flamenco life as a guitarist, but when I started showing geniune interest, my teacher Mario Escudero took me aside and gently informed me "girls don't play flamenco". I told him I didn't care and would do it anyway. He then clutched my shoulders and repeated very slowly "girls do not play flamenco".

I went on to play for small groups for a few years before realizing Mario was right.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:16:36
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
quote:

Yes females can play flamenco and many times with more feeling than men IMO.


Antonia Martínez is currently the leading female flamenco guitarist in Spain. She plays for important groups such as Marco Flores, a very popular young dancer. I believe she's been to the US with the Flamenco Festival.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:20:59
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

There's more to it than that. I began flamenco life as a guitarist, but when I started showing geniune interest, my teacher Mario Escudero took me aside and gently informed me "girls don't play flamenco". I told him I didn't care and would do it anyway. He then clutched my shoulders and repeated very slowly "girls do not play flamenco".

I went on to play for small groups for a few years before realizing Mario was right.


That's sad, I'm sorry to hear that. There is the sexism factor too.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:22:08
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

Antonia Martínez is currently the leading female flamenco guitarist in Spain. She plays for important groups such as Marco Flores, a very popular young dancer.


All the more credit to her for having overcome any sexism that she must have encountered.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 15:33:14
 
Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Ailsa) 
I wonder how Laura Gonzalez career is going... I guess she's more of a soloist anyway, eh, Zata?:







She's been posted on the foro before, no? But she's the best I've seen, even though I'm not crazy about her tone but it could be the recording. But there have been many women that have been posted here and that can play very well! And there certainly some extraordinary female classical guitarists!

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 20:13:59
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

I went on to play for small groups for a few years before realizing Mario was right.


zata,
I guess it's just a cultural thing more than ability or anything.
That's why there has never been a woman Eric Clapton or Jimi Hendrix or a male Billie Holiday or Edith Piaf to name two of the many.
It doesn't quite fit this cultural image, which of course is changing as the decades go by, so I guess we'll wait and see how it develops!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 20:25:19
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Conrad) 
quote:

I wonder how Laura Gonzalez career is going... I guess she's more of a soloist anyway, eh, Zata?:


I never heard of her. But it's true nowadays, there are guitarists who are strictly soloists, with no experience with, or interest in dance or cante. Their music is correspondingly...different (?)

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 21:04:14
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

I guess it's just a cultural thing more than ability or anything.


Exactly. Escudero didn't tell me girls "can't" play guitar. He said girls "don't" play guitar.

In retrospect, I'm very grateful to him. I got just enough background in guitar to enhance and support everthing else, and as a woman guitarist, even a crappy one, I would always have been a famous freak.

I think the time has finally come for women flamenco guitarists, and we'll be seeing many in the near future.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 21:11:33
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
Speaking of girl guitarists.... The great Paco del Gastor fathered 4 daughters, and no sons, and never taught any of his girls guitar. However he has intensely cultivated the playing of two grandsons whom I just saw in recital a few days ago. They are 14 and 15 years old, and the latter is already dynamite!!! Playing great material too. Paco, who is very versatile and does not limit himself to Morón style, gave them choice falsetas based on a Morón way of touching the strings and working the compás, but with contemporary harmonies and overall approach. I congratulated the gloating grandfather after the recital: he says it's Morón-style guitar for the 21st century.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 21:21:32

JBASHORUN

 

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

[Deleted] 
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 16:56:01
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 22:02:28
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
My first teacher, Fernando Martínez, died at 52 of a heart attack bicycling to work during a transit strike. Then I went to Mario. Fernando was a much better teacher, and with his wife they taught me to accompany cante and dance. I studied with Mario for a couple of years, but most of his material was too difficult for me.

If put through the wringer, I'd have to confess I don't like the "look" of a woman playing guitar, except as soloist. Even Antonia Martínez, an accomplished professional, dresses up like a guy, short hair, black trousers and shirt...

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2008 22:44:33
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
I put up a YouTube link to a performance by Laura Gonzalez last Thursday. It isn’t as if female guitarists aren’t featured on the Foro.

I agree with John O. Playing well has to do with a person’s interest level and willingness to practice—and much of this practice causes a person to spend time away from others.


Laura Gonzalez
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 0:29:56
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
With the guitar's exploding popularity in the western world, I'll wager that half of all women in any given audience probably play guitar better than I do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 1:35:30
 
deyo

Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 12 2006
From: Croatia

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
Just my 2 cents



_____________________________

www.soundclick.com/deyo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 8:33:36
 
Taranto

 

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

If put through the wringer, I'd have to confess I don't like the "look" of a woman playing guitar, except as soloist.


Unless the guitarist is a hottie like Laura Gonzalez, and she accompanies dance and voice too.

Check out her photos:
http://www.elmirabras.com/laura01.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 9:39:13
 
Taranto

 

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
More Laura Gonzalez photos:
http://picasaweb.google.es/huertezuela/LAURAYPEDROENANDUJAR
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 9:43:10
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Taranto) 
quote:

Unless the guitarist is a hottie like Laura Gonzalez


That's just the problem, the dominatrix effect, fine for M/S games, but visually jarring on stage.

Such impressions simply need time to change. Forty years ago women did not commonly sing for dance, but now there are almost as many women as men, and you wonder what all the fuss was about.

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 10:22:41
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
Estella, I was going to ask you if Mario said can't or don't. I was guessing he said don't. Thanks for clarifying. I never met him but corresponded with him in the 70's some and bought one of his books. Trying to teach myself from his book was not the best and if Mario had ever heard me play he would have said, "you shouldn't play." LOL! His statement was clearly from a cultural stand point as you say and a reflection of his beliefs; however feel honored he taught you ... many players of his ability would have refused to teach a woman flamenco guitar as they saw it as vulgar.

Now concerning your comment on how Antonia Martinez dresses ... well I sure wouldn't wear her clothes, they look like womens clothes to me. Should a women flamenco guitarist wear a dress? I say they should wear what they normally wear. One should dress for the occasion, ie, blue jeans to play at a formal wedding might not be right, but would be fine for an informal occasion. You could dress me up in a tux and I wouldn't sound any better than I do in old faded blue jeans. You can't turn crap into candy by changing the wrapper.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 12:46:30
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
quote:

Now concerning your comment on how Antonia Martinez dresses ... well I sure wouldn't wear her clothes, they look like womens clothes to me.


When Antonia bowed with three other guitarists at the end of a Rocío Molina show, you had to look real hard to pick out the "fake guy"

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 12:59:31
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

When Antonia bowed with three other guitarists at the end of a Rocío Molina show, you had to look real hard to pick out the "fake guy"


So when she took her bow, you saw no endow.... hmmm!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 13:21:21
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to Samarto) 
quote:

So when she took her bow, you saw no endow.... hmmm!


They held their guitars in front of them, like shields...I'm sure few audience members knew there was an imposter in their midst

_____________________________

Estela Zatania
www.deflamenco.com
www.expoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 13:45:58
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Can Females play flamenco? (in reply to zata) 
quote:

Even Antonia Martínez, an accomplished professional, dresses up like a guy, short hair, black trousers and shirt...

When we saw Olga Pericet last year the programme listed Antonia Jimenez as one of the guitarists, and we thought that's interesting and unusual, a woman flamenco guitarist. Then when they came on stage we spent several minutes looking at the group and saying "I thought there was supposed to be a woman playing guitar...?"

She was well disguised, too. Good player, of course, but perhaps slightly more macho in image than her male colleague.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2008 16:15:41
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.1132813 secs.