Cracked top New Marin Flamenco

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hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

Cracked top New Marin Flamenco

Good afternoon,

I was cleaning my new (5 week old 2008 model) Antonio Marin flamenco blanca,when I discovered a crack about 2 inches directley below the bridge on the bass side.
I think I then went for a stiff drink! But it was still there when I returned.

I live in Southern B.C.Canada with a a winter relative humidity aceage of about 53%. I own 4 other guitars and have never had any problems with cracks or issues effecting the wood.

Can anyone out there offer any suggestions as to what may have caused this to happen.

This was the nicest sounding and playing guitar ever for me.

Thanks J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2008 23:57:24

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

!!!!

Those things run ... what ... $10,000?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 0:11:55

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to ChiyoDad)

Yes they do...J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 0:22:55

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

A well-known luthier remarked that a guitar usually sounds incredible right before it cracks. I can't recall who said this, but as the wood dries it changes the tone of the instrument and the lack of humidity can cause the wood to crack.

Maybe it can be repaired with cleats. Can you send it back? Canada isn't exactly a harsh environment for a guitar and for $10,,000 I would expect a high level of customer service.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 0:39:49

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Yes, I agree about Canada not being a harsh enviroment..especially the location of where I live on the west coast near the water...I am awaiting my answer from the builder to see if there is anything they will do!
I await my answer...J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 4:13:58

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Let's hope it all works out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 4:35:37

eccullen

Posts: 97
Joined: Aug. 14 2007

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

for other advice try : http://www.dominelliguitars.com/public/index.html

.....he is in Victoria and may be near you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 4:53:17

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Before you do anything else, contact Antonio Marín. He´s a nice person.

Good luck
Anders

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 7:25:51

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Good morning,

That is good advise and I did...I will be taking the guitar back to Granada March 31...just a fluke that I was going to Spain anyways...I don't know what they can really do for me...I don't feel that a guitar should crack after less than 30 days from purchase, especially how it was cared for and in the humidity (50-60%) range it is kept in...thanks for your suggestions..I will see what happens.
Have heard that Marin is a very kind man.
J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 13:24:08

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to eccullen)

Thanks for the advise...I will be returning it to Spain next week to see what the builder will do...J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 13:26:39

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Don't sweat about it too much. I'm sure he will fix it and it will play as good as new. I played a 1934 Santos Hernandez last week and it had a crack running along the whole soundboard. Jose Ramirez fixed it and restored it, and the guitar was extraordinary. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it with my own two ears.

Un saludo, Errol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2008 15:33:52

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to flamencoguru)

Thanks Errol for your words of encouragement...I am picking up a new Juan Miguel Gonzalez in Almeria while in Spain as well as seeing Marin in Granada...carrying around 2 guitars and a suitcase was not really in my plan..what to do?

Listened to your web site very talented man...thanks and enjoy..J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2008 0:50:13

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

I'm glad to see that you are getting a Juan Miguel Gonzalez. I have two of them. I love them both. He is a personal friend of mine. I see him every year when I travel to Spain. Please say hello to him when you see him.

Un saludo, Errol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2008 2:15:10

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to flamencoguru)

Good Morning Errol...yes I will say hi to him from you...I understand he is capable of making some wonderful guitars...and if you own two of them obviously you must be quite pleased with them...each hand made guitar that a luthier creates has their own soul and personality...sometimes when new the sound can be a little disappointing...but with playing and some passage of time they can mature into pure magic.
I understand his guitars are built a little heavier than the Granada school that Marin builds.

Any advise on getting to La Canada Almeria once I am in Malaga? Can I take a train there or will I have to bus it? I am guessing at about 3 to 4 hours travel time.

Thanks again..talk to oyu soon..J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2008 9:36:02

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

I guess you can take a train from Malaga to Almeria. I'm sure you could probably take a bus too. Maybe it will be cheaper. As far as from Almeria to his shop, you'll definitely have to take a taxi. Let me know how it goes.

As far as weight goes.... Yeah, I guess his guitars are a little heavier but to tell you the truth, I've never thought weight was a very important factor in guitars. I've played many instruments and I think weight is at the bottom of the list.

Take care, Errol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2008 16:02:13

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

There´s no direct train between Malaga and Almería. The bus will be the fastest and cheapest.
You can go with train Malaga - Granada but its a bit of a pain and the Granada - Almeria.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 7:10:51

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to flamencoguru)

Good morning Errol,
Thanks for your input..always appreciated...and I will let you know how it all works out when I return...Leaving for Spain from Vancouver March 31...Return April 9...J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 10:24:22

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Good morning Anders,

I appreciate the travel tip regarding the train/bus system.
Looks like I will try and stay in Almunecar the first night.
Which would be part way between Malaga and La Canada
Almeria..Can I assume that there might be a bus available right from
Malaga International that would take me there. (Almunecar).Thanks again
for the suggestions and information. J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 10:34:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

quote:

Can I assume that there might be a bus available right from
Malaga International that would take me there. (Almunecar).Thanks again
for the suggestions and information.

Nope, I think you will need to get to Malaga bus station.

You can take a train from the airport to Malaga city centre. Don't take the transfer bus as it is urban and stops everywhere. Taxi is about 15 Euros.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 11:03:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Cracks are disturbing, but they dont' affect sound at all. I have seen 1000's of guitars with cracks. And many times they happen in the first year of the guitar's life. I guess it CAN be a problem if it goes under the bridge. But the maker will fix it and the sound will be fine I am sure. The thing is not so much humidity in your area but how quick the humidity changes. If your guitar was dry, and arrived to you close to the sea or you put extra humidity thinking the guitar needed it, then the next time it is drying out it can expell the new water to quick and the wood can't keep up. Even very old aged wood can have this problem.

Good luck!

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 15:12:54

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Ricardo

Ricardo,
I appreciate your input and your comments...I was looking again at the guitar today and the crack has doubled in length to over 4 inches...and it runs right
beside the bass side of the bridge and parallel to the tap plate which makes it difficut to spot in the first place...Marin builds his tops very thin and it looks like the pressure the strings are putting on the bridge is making it worse...hopefully he will replace it for me...I don't mind waiting until another is made...but this should not happen to a brand new guitar after just a few short weeks. J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 22:20:25

Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Hannabach, You are right it shouldn't happen, but it does and I see no fault by Marin or by you. My opinion is it isn't a direct effect of humidity. You gave this guitar the fine care it deserves. Marin used the best seasoned wood available and saw no defect or reason to believe it would crack. Now my theory from making 2 flamenco guitars and repairing several over the years. I think the wood had an invisible weakness unbeknownist to Marin. The crack appeared from vibrations after the guitar was played and is now spread. We must remember that the wood was once a living thing. How it grew and developed was subject to many factors. A weakness with the grain might have been from a dryer or wetter than usual year. My point is as with any living thing weaknesses are part of life and sometimes in wood they maybe hidden even from the most expert eye. After the wood is properly seasoned then the maker selects the wood and makes the guitar. He then test the guitar to see if it meets his standards, if so it is then sold. The change of humidity, elevation, etc may help the vibrations to open a crack in the weak area, but in my opinion it is a weakness that allows the vibrations to open a crack in a new fine master grade guitar.

I agree with you and would insist on a new top. A repair might resolve the problem and probaby not effect the tone, but the idea of a repaired crack might bother you. Also if from a weakness in the wood, more cracks might open. From what I have heard, Marin will have no problem making this right with you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2008 23:53:19

chinito

Posts: 104
Joined: Jun. 14 2004

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Hi Hannabach,

Whereabouts on the BC coast are you? I'm in Victoria and can say Eccullen's suggestion re. dominelliguitars.com is a good one if you're near Vic. Marcus Dominelli has worked on two of my guitars and does great repairs. He also is a newer forum member and has posted in the luthiery section. If it'll save you having to lug around an extra guitar case....

Jake

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2008 6:07:27

hannabach

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to chinito)

Good morning Jake,

I live in White Rock on the mainland...Marin as agreed to look at it...so as much a hassle as it is I will be taking the guitar back to Spain this comming monday...thank you and everyone else for their valuable input...this truly is a great forum...thanks J

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2008 13:35:12

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

quote:

I was looking again at the guitar today and the crack has doubled in length to over 4 inches...

If you havent done so, slacken the strings NOW!!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2008 13:56:42

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

Anders. Your guitar is still uncracked and well

..im very picky about the hummidity
in the long run i guess its ineviteble (spel check)that a crack will happen i guess.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2008 15:35:02

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cracked top New Marin Flamenco (in reply to hannabach)

I´m glad its sound. Scandinavia can be rough with all the central heating in winter.

Dont worry, I dont think it´ll crack. If you think to much about it it might crack. You know cosmical energies and so.