Guitar keeps going out of tune

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Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

Guitar keeps going out of tune

I bought a new Ricardo Sanchis guitar a few months back and the treble strings keep going out of tune, I thought it was the strings at first, but now wonder if it is the guitar, could it be due to the movement or stretching of new wood on cheaper end models, and is it likely to settle down after time? A question for the luthiers out there maybe.
Thanks

Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 10:40:41

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

A good bet would be the tuners; makers often skimp with cheap tuners at the lower end of their range. They are very easy to replace (4 small screws each side and some new pilot holes).

A set of Schallers are not expensive and fixed the problem on my Bernal student model. Worth a try.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 10:58:33

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Escribano)

Thanks for that Simon, I never thought about that, how much are they roughly.
Thanks
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 11:51:34

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

how much are they roughly

£30 to £50

http://www.touchstonetonewoods.co.uk/ttwp29.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 14:56:42

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

Dave;

Sorry for all the questions below, but as we are not in the same room I would like to find out more and hope to shed some light on the topic.

This is a subjective topic and can have many extremes as well as being annoying. It is not unusual for a guitar of any quality to go “out of tune”, while playing one piece of music of only a few minutes duration.

Infrequently guitar strings will slip at the bridge end. However, it is more common for strings to slip at the tuner end. Be sure you have the strings attached and wrapped correctly at both ends.

One thing I learned years ago was to take the treble strings at the bridge end and hold it over a flame to create a small “bubble”, doing one string at a time. This helps prevent movement as well as help prevent the possibility of the string becoming loose at the bridge end which can cause damage to the guitar top and a few other annoyances.

In addition to the tuner suggestion I have a few questions:

1. Which model guitar?

2. When was it made?

3. What type of strings and string tension are you using?

4. When you say “out of tune”, give us an idea of what that means.
A. Does it go “out of tune” while you are playing it for a few minutes?
B. Does it go “out of tune” between early morning and early evening?
C. Does it go “out of tune” from one day to the next?

5. How are you securing both ends of the strings? Watch how you wrap the strings around the tuner end and if it is slipping.

6. How long have the strings been on the guitar?

7. What do you use to tune your guitar? I use a pitch pipe, tuning fork, quartz tuners or my ear - what ever is available!

8. By any chance is your guitar subjected to any extremes of temperature during the day? That can affect the tuning.

New strings tend to streatch and take perhaps three days to settle in ("set"). They continue to streatch but at a slower rate once they are "set". Some strings are better than others at settling in. With all the strings I have used it seems that the treble strings require the most "tweaking".

Treble strings will go out of tune more often than bass strings. If you are playing accompaniment for dancers the chances are great that your guitar will be out of tune within a few minutes and no one will know it

!

I have seen many guitarists tune while playing as the strings tend to out of tune. Hopefully, you will find a good solution to the problem.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 17:15:18

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Thanks Thom,
I have never had a problem with other guitars, in fact I have a classical in the same room. The guitar is a Ricardo Sanches Carpio 2f, year 2002 I always burn the ends, and tuck the string under at the nut end. Strings are Ddarrio hard tension, which I find incidently take an age to settle. The problem is only with the trebles, and tends to go out of tune when not playing it, and from one day to the next, and sometimes while playing it. I have heard of faulty guitars that never tune up, but I think replacing the machine heads might be a good start, cheap ones must have a tendency to slip, are they all standard diameter to fit all guitars?
Thanks
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2004 17:41:23

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

Dave;

I tried a 2 AF and liked it very much and would have bought it as it had a great sound and was very playable. Unfortunately it was promised to another person, so I bought a 1 AF extra and I am extremely happy with it.

My favorite strings are D’Addario (all tensions) and they settle in very quickly for me. By that I mean within a day or two.

I see the tuners for the 2 F listed as “generic lyre”, whatever that is.

http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/mirror/02-RS2AF.htm

http://www.rsanchiscarpio.com/

Here is one web site that I deal with and might give you a relative idea. Some machine head tuners I am familiar with are $200 or more. For about $50 you can get good ones.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2004 3:24:49

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

I think replacing the machine heads might be a good start, cheap ones must have a tendency to slip, are they all standard diameter to fit all guitars?

Yes, they are standard spacing, can't recall the distance but have a look around the web. Factory guitars are made with a jig set to this space. Handmade guitars use the selected tuners as the template. You should be OK with off-the-shelf, make sure there is enough room for any lyre decoration at both ends, some guitars will only take hauser designs.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2004 11:05:42

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Yeh I liked the 2f immediatly I tried it, very playable and flamenco sounding for the money, doesent have the volume or bark of the more expensive models. The 1f is probably better but was out of my price range. To be honest for £500 I don't think you would get a better flamenco. The tuners do look cheap, although seem to work ok, but it seems the most logical explanation to explain pitch shift.
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2004 11:09:35

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Tom, I never had the chance to try a Sanchez 1f extra, what would you say the main differences where, between the 2f and 1f.
Thanks
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2004 11:17:51

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

what would you say the main differences where, between the 2f and 1f.

Dave;

1. Care in construction.

2. Sound – my Blanca sounds great and can be played very loud when needed.

The 2 F I played was a great instrument and better than many $2500 dollar guitars available in California.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2004 1:29:25

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Guitar keeps going out of tune (in reply to Billyboy)

Dave,
If the bridge end is secure (you say you burn the ends) it can only be the other end that slips. Either the rollers are not secure and slip under the pull from the string or it's the way you attach the string. If you don't already do this, try tying a knot with the string before tuning up.
Cheers
Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2004 18:40:45