Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Pinonate (Paco de Lucia)
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
guitarbuddha
Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
|
 RE: Pinonate (Paco de Lucia) (in reply to branquito)
|
|
|
Every single bar which was a downstemmed note fails to indicate where the bass note is damped or released. This means that in terms of notational accuracy every bar with downstems is wrong, each system should add up to the number of beats that the time signature indicates. They do not.
The speed is not crotchet 120 but in fact quaver equals 240, this is important to let the player know the density of rhythmic accents. There IS a difference in feel.
The FEEL of the demisemiquavers when performed at this speed is of a grace note, this represents on the page a better idea how the music should be phrased, where the important notes are and what the underlying syncopation is. Wtiting them as demisemiquavers is wrong.
Bars which are phrased in 12/16 ( according to the beaming of the transcriber ) should carry a 12/16 time signature. The majority of bars on the left carry the wrong time signature.
The pima fingering followed by an upstroke with the index finger is unlikely at this speed, it is much more likely to be a downstroke with the ring and/or middle finger.
Bar eight fails to indicate that it contains triplets.
The piece is in a phrygian and should carry a B flat in the key signature. It fails to.
All of the above is really quite stupid nit picking. But it can be done by almost anyone. (Not just overconfident and argumentative teenage imbeciles with inflated ideas of their own abilities and no social skills who excuse their own innacuracies by making reference to unverifiable factors like 'its a variation' or 'its a live version' .) What is really much more important is that the transcription is very accurate and represents hard and honest work by a diligent and sympathetic transcriber.
It would take me a lot of time to work it out and whilst this would have been a valuable learning experience there are others and we only have so much time.
Reading music is good, neglecting readers is to consigne the guitar to the sidelines of many ( PROFESSIONAL ) musical situations. It is a skill and imparts knowledge, these things are always good. Why should guitarists deny themselves them. Why shouldn't WE look at the music of other instruments to learn from them, we have the right too.
Tab should be included, even if only for commercial reasons.
Doitsujin there are some very minor and unimportant mistakes in Remache starting at bar ten. Faucher trims down the amount of repetitions of the ami arpeggio to fit the time signature. He does this consistantly throhought the piece.
He probably did this for a reason. It was a choice. I think he chooses very well and we should all take our hats off to him. The ( unnamed ) transcriber of the paco piece the idiot posted does work of a similar quality.
I checked this just now by reading through the transcription ( notation ) whist enjoying the opportunity to listen to the piece again. This is a great joy for me and cant really be done with TAB. It can be done with notation because of the PICTORIAL nature of standard notation, you know you can take in A LOT just at a glance. It is a great way to study music. It is also great for helping you be realy ACTIVE whilst you are spending the really important time listening.
Anyway tomorrow I am going to post the first six bars of a piece that Ghandi played to me on the moon last week ( and if anyone was there it was just after they left ). I of course finnished writing it out before he had finished playing it in a way that standardised music notation and made it for the first time completely objective and devoid of aesthetic choices. With the other hand i played it simultaneously as I was transcribing it. With my foot i prepared us a delicious meal the quality of which he had never before experienced.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 19 2007 18:46:32
 |
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: Pinonate (Paco de Lucia) (in reply to guitarbuddha)
|
|
|
Guitarbuddha, I agree with just about all your nit picking. 12/16 grouping too, is really misleading, not that he should change meter, but rather NOT beam that way. Not indicating the triplets, is so bad.
Only thing is, sometimes demisemisquaver (is that 32nd notes?) paco does in bulerias, are clear,not grace notes, when you slow it down. Faucher uses grace notes when really there is "swing" semis or 16ths. There are several things that I disagree with, which can be a choice of the transcriber I guess.
But anyone who can play can use even a bad transcription as a tool to learn it proper. About faucher also, I am almost 100% certain he puts DELIBERATE and obvious timing mistakes (not refering to the overall meter issue) into his transcriptions, to see who tries to steal his work. I can give you my reasons if you are interested? Point being, people DO steal his transcriptions and reproduce his "mistakes". Like cheating on a test where two guys get the same exact wrong answer.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 20 2007 0:35:38
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: Pinonate (Paco de Lucia) (in reply to guitarbuddha)
|
|
|
quote:
The ones I mentioned were kind of editing Nunez I think.
Oh yeah he does that too. Makes it fit nice and neat in compas, especially on free tempo stuff, like old fandangos, nino ricardo alegrias, etc.
The things I am refering to are not so obvious on the surface. More for the knowleadgeable player/reader. I have noticed it with Nunez transcriptions mainly because I have learned that stuff from Nunez too. But also for instance, there was a Manolo Sanlucar falseta, where he plays 16th notes, bass note then three melody notes follow. He wrote like triplets with the bass occuring simultaneously with first note. So subtle, the player can figure it out by ear, but "wrong" mathematically. I heard stories of him calling Encuentro on the phone saying "you stole my transcriptions!!!". It seems crazy and ecsentric behavior, but I discovered it to be true!  I have seen others copy his "mistakes", including Encuentro.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 21 2007 18:41:18
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
7.617188E-02 secs.
|
Printable Version
