Accompanying Fandangos DE H por baile

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Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

Accompanying Fandangos DE H por baile

I picked up the chorsd and structure of FDH largely from listening to cante CDs and the solo compas one (so fairly safe trad. stuff). I can play along no problem and feel the compas, but I am hitting a couple of snags working things out with a dancer on this.

The dancer was working out ALL her steps in 12 (which I think is the root of the problem) and she had a difficulty at the end of the letra as the number of beats (from the fmaj7/A chord resolving to the E major) I was playing was only 9; 6 beats on that F chord then 3 on the E - before the main estribillo kicks in. The dancer gave me a quizzical look, but I am pretty sure this is right, yes?

If so, what does this usually mean - does the dancer do something that counts out in 9 at the end of the letra? If feels weird and wrong if I stretch out that F chord at the end an extra 3 beats.

Along the same lines, there seems to be an 'extra' three beats between the estribillo and the start of the letra too, eg:

E E Am Am Am Am G F E E E E

E E Am Am Am Am G F E E E E

E7 E7 E7

G7 G7 G7 G7 G7 G7 C C C C C C

C C C C C C C F F F F F F

etc.

...would a dancer normally start a step on that first G7 chord? So the intervening beats (which I have marked as E7 chords) work as a kind of cue?

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 9:58:38

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 13:38:06

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito

Off to classs now but there should only be groups of six beats.

Ok, I'll upload some examples where it isn't, stay tuned.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 17:16:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

quote:

I was playing was only 9; 6 beats on that F chord then 3 on the E - before the main estribillo kicks in. The dancer gave me a quizzical look, but I am pretty sure this is right, yes?

That does not sound right to me. There are a couple of things. When the Copla starts, there are two kinds, one that goes G7 for 8 beats then goes to C.

G7 G7 G7/G7 G7 G7/G7 G7 C/C C C. OK, one compas.

The other typical thing is a half compas in the beginning. This can mess it up for the dancer if they don't listen to singing, and only use choreography.

G7 G7 C/C C C. The rest would be the same lengths as normal.

In both cases, you have the harmony change (for the rest of the copla) in 12 beats where the chords change on that 9th beat each time. C7-F, G7-C, C-G7, G7-C, So plus the beginning you have 5 compases so far. The last line of the copla, the 6th compas, goes like this:

C7 C7 F/F F F/ F F E/ E E E. So 12 beats like normal. THEN the estribillo.

All coplas are this structure meter wise. You can do the Fandangos that goes E7-Amajor, Am-E7, but just sub in for the G7-C, and back. But always 6 compases or 5&1/2 depending on the first line of cante, or how your falseta goes if you are not working with a singer.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 17:35:41

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo - could you give those clips I just uploaded a listen and see what you think?

edit - wait a minute, looking at what you just posted I think I am playing it right but counting wrong. I am starting my count 3 beats late on the letra, which is why I seem to be 3 short at the end!

Aha!

Sheesh I hate counting this stuff, does your head in.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 17:44:36

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2007 19:52:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Can you explain?

Sorry, once again it is all in how you count it. I am not counting it like it is Alegrias. You can see the 12 chords in my diagram and hopefully see what I mean by the "9th beat".

Fandangos is pretty easy to accompany. The rhythm is designed to accent AFTER the singer gives you the note, so there should not be any "leading" the singer, even if you just play the progression mindlessly. But there are singers that might slow way down or stretch it or whatever....not good for dance as you know. But I can understand there you might "lead" the singer if you don't slow down. What I wrote is a blue print that should work in all dancing cases.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2007 13:53:42

hassurbanipal

Posts: 191
Joined: Jul. 14 2006
From: belgium

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

hey ricardo (or someone else ofcourse), just another question about the fandango de huelva.

Somebody told me that in the 'introducion' there can be one compas of 14 beats instead of 12? just one time, like for instance you have 4 compas of 12 beats and then 1 of 14 and again one of 12 and then you go for example into falseta?

Is this possible?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2007 7:05:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompanying Fandangos DE H por ... (in reply to hassurbanipal)

14? No. I would accept 15 beats, because really it is based in 3's. I have heard Parrilla do that, but he is from Jerez not Huelva!

Anyway, I am not the flamenco police or anything, but since it is in 3's I think that is the best way to think of it, and not really "wrong" in terms of guitar falsetas to add or subtract 3 beats. But for "cante" or coplas, it seems clearly structured to 5.5 or 6 "compases" where a full compas=12 beats.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 3:04:32