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Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot
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Zorro02
Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
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 RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to DavidT)
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Hi Rasgueo,
A true flamenco guitar should be handmade in Spain!!
I am sure the Lester DeVoe's models are excellent value for money however, 30 years experience is really nothing compared to a Ramirez, Conde, Gerrundino and others. Am I being pretentious????
I asked a local luthier to make a "fine" flamenco guitar for me. He assured me a similar, if not better construction, with 1a materials and for a fraction of the cost. Obviously he would be proud of HIS guitar and would want his name on the label (and if I where him, I would want exactly the same) He showed me the plans..They looked fantastic, but the name on the label and the headstock did not. John Smith (not his real name) constructor of guitars.
I know, I know!! many luthiers out there will be busting a blood vessel, but tradition is tradition and Spain is the home of the flamenco guitar.
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Date Feb. 24 2007 19:40:15
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legrec
Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to Zorro02)
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Hola !
quote:
however, 30 years experience is really nothing compared to a Ramirez, Conde, Gerrundino and others.
I will reverse your point of view : Lots of spanish builders are resting on their "laurels" because of these "several decades" of fame, and the one you mentioned have turned since a long time IMO in a big business relation with guitar making, with all the troubles and deception it involves for customers...
It's like french wine. I'm french and can clearly see that in the times when nobody knew how to make red wine, we made tons and tons of unbrewable vinegar with a good looking sticker, exported it broadly at unfair prices (read the Conde prices) and laughed on top of our hill&castle.
Keeping the good bottles for us and thinking we were eternal kings in this field (and so, stopped to really like, cherrish, innovate, respect wine and wine drinkers).
Now, it's VERY hard for us. Singing: "The harder they comes, the harder they fall, na na na".
In the "modern" wines contests, we're beaten by Californian, South-American, Australian, etc wines.
For sure we still have some bottles of "Château Palmer" or "Romane-Conti" remaining (read "Château Reyes" and "Gerundino-Gonzalez").
At an unbelievable cost and soon not available anymore.
For sure, the inertia of customer's buying behaviors prevent us to fall definitively. The fame still compensate the lack of price-quality-honesty relation. But not for long if we don't react.
...same thing for spanish guitars, on the whole...
The "extranjeros" have to make a reputation, so they work really hard. And most importantly, with a "discovering" spirit. Like in the good ol' days in Spain.
IMO With some notable exceptions, there are better deals (quality-price-relation with maker) outside of spain than inside nowadays if you're not spaniard yourself.
And I can say my Devoe clearly "mata" (kills) all the spanish guitars I've tried during my quest... And my second best is from a French builder... 
And I've got nothing about spanish builders, I began my quest there, like most of us.
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Date Feb. 24 2007 22:19:37
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Rain
Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to Patrick)
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I played many Devoes and paid alot of money in shipping charges, and I have yet to play a Devoe that I deem a good guitar. However, I am dieing to hear one that lives up to the reputation Devoe is known for. He is not a consistant builder.
I have an Aaron Green Blanca due next month, my decision to purchase the Green came about after I compared it to a Devoe(A friend of my owns both guitars) And The Green kicked the Devoes ass. It was louder, projected better, and over all sounded 10 times better. Now to be fair, I'm sure there are alot of great Devoes out there, I just have not played one yet. And My Aaron Green might just be a worthless guitar when it arrives, I'll definately let you all know, and give you my verdict when it arrives.
Thank all the middle men out there (Like Guitar salon) for making guitars as expensive as they are. If I cannot by the guitar directly or if a guitar maker wants me to go thru a middleman, then I take my business elsewhere.
I'm a one guitar person, I play one classical guitar( I do own 2 one is my first that i purchased in 1987, I use that for flamenco practice) and If the Green Blanca is what I expect it to be, it will be the Flamenco guitar that I will most likely play for the rest of my life. That is of course I find one that is much better.
So guys pray with me that my Aaron Green is a monster.
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Date Feb. 25 2007 16:39:32
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Patrick
Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to DavidT)
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quote:
I played many Devoes and paid alot of money in shipping charges, and I have yet to play a Devoe that I deem a good guitar. However, I am dieing to hear one that lives up to the reputation Devoe is known for. He is not a consistant builder
Gurkan,
Man I have heard you say this many times before and I just don't get where you are coming form. Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but I just don't see it your way. Personally, I believe DeVoe is one of the most consistent builders around. I too have played several DeVoe's.
I currently own two DeVoe negra's and have played at length the sister guitar to one of mine that was built in the same group. All I can say is, they “all” have had the same overall “DeVoe sound”. One may be a bit brighter in the mids…one in the trebles…on and on. But I can assure you; all of the DeVoe’s I have played were incredibly consistent. I was doing a test with two DeVoe’s a few months ago and constantly had to look at each guitar to see which one I was playing.
As to you saying you haven’t played one you like, well again man that’s just your personal opinion, which I respect. Maybe you just don’t like what I call the “DeVoe” sound. That doesn’t make a DeVoe bad; it just may not fit “your” mold of what a good flamenco should sound like. Every DeVoe I have played tended to be more to the “contemporary” sound you hear a lot today.
You and I have discussed Green’s guitars. In fact I think I was a bit responsible for your decision to go with a Green (don’t get mad at me if you don’t like it). My Green (blanca) is a whole bunch different from my DeVoe’s. My Green blanca is very old school. One thing I will say is it took about a year to really come into its own. I am hearing wonderful things about his negra’s as well and have one due sometime this year.
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Date Feb. 25 2007 17:50:21
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Rain
Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to Patrick)
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Patrick, I was not slamming Devoe just for the sake of it, like I said I have yet to play one that I like. I'm sorry but the Devoes I played were not very good, that is my opinion. Are your Devoes loud? Do they project? they probably do, that was not the case with the ones I played. I would love to play your guitars and see where it is your coming from, but thats not probable.
As far as the the Green goes, if it's ****, I will let him know and everyone on this board as well.
Look Tone is subjective, so you may be right, perhaps Devoe's are not the sound I'm looking for.
Yes, Julian Bream and segovia both played Hausers.
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Date Feb. 25 2007 18:34:48
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to Patrick)
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I think the thing that the comments on this thread mostly highlight is the difference between art, science and engineering.
Art has an undefinable "feel" or "sense" to it and really has a logic of it's own, often to the individual.
So that a guitar built in San Francisco by a Spanish-born luthier does not weigh in so much as a guitar built under the Andalucian sun by a Spanish builder.
Or that a guitar built under the Andalucian sun by a Danish-born luthier is somehow not the same as if he was born in Granada.
Total rubbish IMO.
Now getting down to the nitty-gritty...
Is a good gringo guitarist the same as a good Andalucian guitarist?
Depends what you mean by "good" I suppose.,,
I've been listening to Flamenco for quite a while now and I am still taken aback at how some Andalucian guitarists will interpret quite a simple phrase.
Not something that would have come to my mind naturally I must admit.
So in that way, I feel I've missed out on that "gut-feeling" and "instictive" way of playing that comes with someone who has grown up and learned with the culture, regardless of the amount of Flamenco I've listened to.
Is it possible at all?
Well, obviously it is when hearing non-Spanish guitarists like, say, Amir Haddad, who was born and brought up in Germany, but moved to Jerez at an early age.
Depends how much you want to get into it, I suppose.
That's my view anyway...
cheers
Ron
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A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
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Date Feb. 25 2007 20:51:18
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: Lester DeVoe Waiting List Spot (in reply to DavidT)
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quote:
I think playing the guitar and building are two different things.
I dont agree..... I cannot imagine myself being able to build good instruments without being able to play them. I play 1 - 2 hours a day because I like it and because its part of my work.. building guitars.
The little details, like pulsation, balance, attack at lower frets and upper frets etc. are so important and I prefere to be able to judge these things myself instead of leaving it to someone else to tell me. I think it must be a poor feeling to build an instrument and not being able to test it, and I say really test it by playing it well, not being able to play a few chords and stum a bit. A flamenco guitar needs to be tested with the thumb digging hard near the bridge.... 
As to the discussion....... PLEASE remember always, that there´s something called taste and that it influences in the judgement, especially when the judge is not a very good player understanding the complexity of the art and the tool (guitar)
As if guitars should come from Spain. I live here and I totally disagree. If you got the capacity, the time and you work hard you can build great instruments everywhere. The only little advantage we have here in Spain is reference, that we have more players to test our guitars and more guitars to compare with... But things are changing, nowadays we have Conde Hermanos factory guitars all over the planet... You may like them or not, but ARE a good reference point. Sometimes a VERY good one.
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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Feb. 26 2007 7:27:10
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We all know Lester sends them the best...that's what one of our forum members heard from the uncle...of a friend....of his sisters.... boy friends.... brother. My two DeVoe's I am sure are his inferior ones.
