gypsies map

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gypsies map

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gypsies map

this is the gypsies map and thedefrent cultures of flamenco :O)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2007 16:29:45

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

well..... ehm.. Its exremely unprecise and I think there is much thought without proof inside. I know its the secret map to santa clause, they just wrote the false title on this..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2007 22:58:24

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

well..... ehm.. Its exremely unprecise and I think there is much thought without proof inside. I know its the secret map to santa clause, they just wrote the false title on this..

anyway thank ya for comment and just make search on the net and tell me what you find ... thank ya anyway and regards for santa .... but am sure of what i post ....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2007 23:42:01

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

hey doublekk2
where did you find that?

I've been doing research for my seminar, and have read many books/academic articles stating what you have above...interesting readings. There is also some kind of movie/documentary detailing the gypsies route from India to Spain, I just forget its name. Anyone know?

Juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2007 23:45:56

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to jrabbani)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrabbani

hey doublekk2
where did you find that?

I've been doing research for my seminar, and have read many books/academic articles stating what you have above...interesting readings. There is also some kind of movie/documentary detailing the gypsies route from India to Spain, I just forget its name. Anyone know?

Juben

hello juben
i was always intersted besides studying flamenco to research for the roots of this music cause it have some oriental typical moods in oriental music as i come from egypt ,and also an indian flavor , and also the word of flah menco whoch is an arabic word it means farmmer like you or from yr same group that was said when they asked him who you are i mean from egy or arabs to the gypsy ,and also the gypsies used to play the flamenco so the arabs in the 15th centurey name it flah menco music refering to the gypsies music , i had alot of sources on the net you can search even in juan martin books and juan serrano ,also ive seen terra gitana dvd for gypsy kings they mentioned this info , one of them said that his roots isfrom egypt and other said from india and they got shots from here and there . also there is a friend on my space and here it is his site
http://www.indialucia.com/india_eng.html also wrote the history of flamenco or gypsies and how it comes . if you need any other info plz refer to the net and if you knew any info plz post it so i can read .. regards

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 0:00:16

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Doublekk2

Thanks for info! I was aware that the word "flamenco" has its origins in Arabic. I am using these sources for my students, hope they help:

Diaz-Banez, J.M. 2004. El Compas Flamenco: A Phylogenetic Analysis. Mathmatical conections in Art, Music, and Science, Southwestern College, Winfield, Kansas.

Leblon, B. 1994. Gypsies and Flamenco. University of Hertfordshire Press.
Manuel, P. 1989. Andalusian, Gypsy, and Class Identity in the Contemporary Flamenco Complex. Ethnomusicology, Vol. 33, No. 1. (Winter, 1989)

Papapavlou, M. 2003.The City as a Stage: Flamenco in Andalusian Culture. University of Thessali.

Washabaugh, W. 1996. Flamenco: Passion, Politics and Popular Culture. Berg: Oxford International Publishers Ltd.

these are all articles/books/journals you can find online through academic databases.

Juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 0:10:58

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

thank you juben .... i will search again thanx for this sources and plz if you knew any intersting info plz let me know it .... regards

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 0:13:44

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 2:39:26

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

romerito
no, unfortunately I do not read spanish (yet). And yes I am well aware that this is just a theory of migration, albeit one of the more popular ones. The class I am teaching is an anthropology class focusing on the culture of flamenco music. It is geared to undergraduate students here at UCLA. Anyways, I have all the readings picked out for my class, but any other recommendations is always welcomed for my own personal gain.

Juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 3:08:02

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Laitcha Dron by Tony Gatlif is a very good film which illustrates this path.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 5:23:51

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

thats it! buddha!!
I've been trying to find that damn name for about a year now, thanks alot!

Juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 5:39:00

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to jrabbani)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrabbani

thats it! buddha!!
I've been trying to find that damn name for about a year now, thanks alot!

Juben

what it talks about??

gypsies and them life ?migration?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 5:45:55

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Glad to be of help (for a change).
It's a really beautiful film no dialogue just music,music,music.

His other film Swing has lots of guitar (Django style). Vengo has Tomatito (but less music in general.

Laitcha Dron is really fascinating as to the ear there is not much in common between the music of Rajistani gypsies and those in Belguim but by the time you've taken the journey you can kind of hear it. I found it really spellbiding in particulare one old Tzigane violinist who played a tune on his G-string, without the bow, by stripping its winding.

It's the first film I've watched twice through in the same day since I was a child. If you can find it you'll be glad you did.

Regards ,

David.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 5:53:33

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

david,
I own vengo and have been searching long and hard for swing, cant find it though.
but i will definitely pick up this one, if i can find it. thanks again!
juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 5:58:20

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Amazon have swing, (one used copy £18 ).
David.

The one with the Romany title hasn't been reissued on DVD

I got it from emule.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 6:20:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

So What????

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 7:03:28

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Amazon have swing, (one used copy £18 ).
David.

The one with the Romany title hasn't been reissued on DVD

I got it from emule.

thankyou guitarbuddha it was amazing infos

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 11:13:49

Tomás Jiménez

Posts: 235
Joined: Feb. 24 2006

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 13 2008 22:50:59

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 11:46:35

hassurbanipal

Posts: 191
Joined: Jul. 14 2006
From: belgium

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

i should mention here as a man from flanders, belgium that there is also an option that the word flamenco comes from my people in the 15/16th century.
Spain was dominant in the world at that time after the moors where chased out granada in 1492. the flemish people where also ruled by the spanish government and where known as flamenco (this is still the name for my language untill now in spain)
apparantly we where a bunch of people back then who made a lot of noise, drank too much and lived life like there was no tomorrow. nothing has changed really.

just to say that we will probably never know.
and like ricardo said, who cares? but it can be interesting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 12:01:06

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Kate is a good member to consult on this subject. if I remember rightly she really knows her gitano theory.

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 14:46:06

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: gypsies map (in reply to jrabbani)

The film is called Latcho Drom.
( Other wise you still search for a year more

)

Peter

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 15:57:42

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

For Ricardo ( if your 'So what ? 'was for me ). If it is not possible to find a DVD for sale anywhere on the web I think it is reasonable to use a download manager and would reccommend Emule.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 18:29:52

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

guitarbuddha. It was in regards to the orginal migration map and discussion. Sorry for confusion. To be sure, check the "in reply to..." at the top of people's posts. At least if there is no quotes, it makes things more clear.

By so what I mean, at this point I don't think it really matters where different racial groups came from, plus this info is vague, as pointed out. Flamenco is not specifically gipsy music anyway. A lot of the gipsy migration movies follow the gipsies from India, etc etc, and try to show that there is some similarity to it all. Really it would good to show the how the gipsies affect the music that already seemed to exist in surrounding areas. For example French gipsy "hot jazz" versus the normal swing bands. Or Gypsy Kings style Rumba vs. Catalan Rumba. etc.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 18:49:49

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Hi Ricardo. I suppose I'm not really up to speed yet with the technology, I'm kind of a born again technophobe.
If everyone watches Latcho Drom then this thread has done some good it really is a beautiful piece of work.

I agree with you that the pace of modern media really gives us a butterfly effect in music. So much so that I find Grishas unadulterated and wholeheartedly dated playing to be a breath of fresh air. Like beef and potatoes after a diet of fusion food, it has to be really good when there is no spice to hide behind.
As for the travelling peoples well I kind of empathise with them as I seem to be constantly penalised for rejecting the mainstream ( and paperwork ).

Happy playing,

David.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 20:15:15

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

lol whats funny to me is that everyone here in Australia thinks gipsyes come from romania

u know romani = romania lol

i just dont have the energy to tell everysingle person

lol romerito just beeing able to read in spanish dosent guarante that you will find out where the gipsyes come from, just the same speculations in a different language

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 20:42:48

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

I took a gypsy culture/film class in college, All I really remember is that there were a lot of hot girls in the class. And my professor said he knew Tomatito.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 21:18:30

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: gypsies map (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I've read and been told the same theories about the migration into Spain from the North and the South. It's getting to be received wisdom now.
But to my mind anyway, you'd have to be both blind and deaf not to see and hear the MAJOR impact that Arabic culture had on Andalucia and Flamenco IMO.
Just because Iberia is separated from North Africa by a few miles of water, does not make it a different country intellectually... only politically.

When I made my first journey to Spain many years ago, I was more surprised at the difference between Catalonia and Andalucia than Andalucia and Morrocco!

I think the only thing we have in common between the two cultures, musically, is the guitar.

That is the "bridge" in Flamenco IMO.

Everything Flamenco can be explained to the "West" on the guitar.

That's why I find attempting to write down Flamenco in Classical music notation is about as unweildy and unhelpful as trying to explain Algebra in Roman numerals.

Cifra/Tabs is probably as close as you'll get since it points simply to fretboard locations and assumes the user knows the form.

I would love to see a Classical score for ANY Flamenco singer...

Anyway...excuse the divergent ramblings...

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 21:27:57

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 23:20:29

Guest

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

guitarbuddha. It was in regards to the orginal migration map and discussion. Sorry for confusion. To be sure, check the "in reply to..." at the top of people's posts. At least if there is no quotes, it makes things more clear.

okay ricardo no problem if you dont like the migration map and the discussion its so simple dont comment but i think there is others was intersted inthe discussion and the map and for me i enjoyed it so much,i prefer yr replay was a good info or sharing with any other way nt (so what???) which meansthat you just want to play without knowing the history which is against my thoughts that i would love to know the history cause i find the flamenco is very close to my culture and i listen to it on oud scales and defrent types of orintal music .... anyway you re welcome to share .... nt to replay me so what ??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2007 23:31:33

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: gypsies map (in reply to Guest)

Ron,you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.
Oral tradition is rich and varied. So is written tradition.

Why choose one whenyou can have BOTH ?

Reallly ....why ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2007 2:38:19