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RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one??   You are logged in as Guest
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Serafino

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 18 2007
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
I know someone who knows Paco very well (professionally and personally for over 30 years) and indicated that Paco hasn't been shy with regards to repairing, refretting, etc., any of his working guitars (he has 60-70 in his collection evidently). The only ones that remain untouched are older historic Santos, Barberos, etc. (i.e. originals) which while almost unplayable (from wear) are kept historically unaltered. Evidently, he's repaired and refretted his Condes numerous times.

I recently had the chance to play one of Paco's old guitars, a Brazilian Rosewood negra. Very low action.

BTW, the VC line is a simple licensing deal. So the rosette is probably modelled after vs. a basis for any modifications or indication that he's playing one on tour. That's not the case IMO.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2007 17:02:54

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
WOW! 60-70 Guitars?! and Santos and Barbero ones too? I knew the guy was rich, but that's some collection! he must have almost as many as Jim Opfer!!!

But I understand the repairs... If I played like paco I'd want most of them to be in playable condition too.

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2007 17:53:05
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
Oooch!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2007 20:06:54
 
Serafino

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 18 2007
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
Are you guilty as charged Jim?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2007 20:40:05
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
quote:

I knew the guy was rich, but that's some collection!


How much do you think that famous flamenco players pay for their guitar colection?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 7:44:17

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

How much do you think that famous flamenco players pay for their guitar colection?


You mean he gets them for free? Thats a neat arrangement!

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 12:52:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
Or at a big discount. Reyes said in an interview that Vicente had to wait in line as long a everybody else for his guitars. He did recommend Vicente order 2, because if one had an accident, he would not let Vicente cut in line!! Nunez also waited for his guitar a long time. As far as I know, Nunez paid for all his guitars except for the Robert Ruck, which he considered a great honor since he had never been given a free guitar before. Nunez also found an old Barbero in a dumpster which he had restored! I would bet that Paco has a couple free guitars in his collection, and also several he paid top dollar for.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 16:23:28
 
Serafino

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 18 2007
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
It depends on the luthier. Some will willingly, given the promotional value, give a free guitar to an artist so that they can enjoy the association, no matter how tenuous in terms of the instrument being used for recording or performance.

On the other hand, others tell everyone to wait in line. I heard a story about Arcángel Fernandez and Paco along the same lines ....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 16:37:58
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
I offered a guitar to Manuel Lopez-Ramos at no charge but he insisted on paying for it (what a classy guy). To me it was an honor to build a guitar for a player of his stature. The Maestro died when we were just starting his fourth guitar. That guitar is now going to one of his students.

Building for the best players is what all luthiers dream about (or should).

John Shelton
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 23:02:59
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
quote:

Building for the best players is what all luthiers dream about (or should).


Yes of course, but we all have bills to pay

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 7:37:28
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
Find this picture of the side of the Conde.... Those stripes seem very unusual and unique. It's hard to believe that another guitar, even of twin, might have the same patern.. but i might be mistaken.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2007 7:04:40
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
bump!

Maybe interesting (and don't know if this was posted before): just saw this at Mundo Flamenco's website.

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/gitarren-gebraucht/355-gitarre-paco-de-lucias-unverkaeuflich

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 21:38:57
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
Talking old ones:
Anyone know what builder´s was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?

I always think of it as the best sounding I´ve heard him play.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 9:31:42
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

Anyone know what builder's was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?


Conde

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 9:54:46
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
Can´t see videos from here, but thanks for the hint, Orson!

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 11:59:13
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Talking old ones:
Anyone know what builder´s was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?

I always think of it as the best sounding I´ve heard him play.

Ruphus


How can you not recognize the media luna headstock shape?

I think he should play blancas a bit more... Such a nice sound

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 12:16:17
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
At the time when I saw the videos I had no clue of headstock signatures, yet. - Eventhough having had a media luna in hands.
( And am still far from telling most major shapes apart.)

Still can´t e.g. name most of Mercedes models either. ( Only ones I managed to memorize I think were the 280 SE and the 450 SLC, and now the SEL ... I think.)

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 12:34:55
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

At the time when I saw the videos I had no clue of headstock signatures, yet. - Eventhough having had a media luna in hands.
( And am still far from telling most major shapes apart.)

Still can´t e.g. name most of Mercedes models either. ( Only ones I managed to memorize I think were the 280 SE and the 450 SLC, and now the SEL ... I think.)

Ruphus


280SE, had one 1984, great car, was like a ship, best for long trips, made 600.000 km and engine was still ok ;)

yep Condes are like Mercedes

Also seams like those years were best (for both)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 21:06:06
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Serafino) 
I had the pleasure of driving a tuned one from time to time, funnily quite around same years ( built maybe in 1982 or so ). That thing really had some torque and the sound of the engine was quite to my taste too.

Lovely car!

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 21 2013 0:17:11
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Assuming it IS the same guitar, how difficult is it to RE STAIN a guitar top like that... and why would he do it for cryn out loud??? Wouldn't it involve sanding off a significant amount of wood from the top, changing the sound?


I have found that the finish on a top can be sanded off (by hand) using 320 grit with oil lubricant; it kind of stops sanding when the wood is reached. Then the oil can be washed off using a naptha soaked rag. And I think the color was in the finish, not a stain below the finish. Why wouldn't he want to refurbish a guitar that he liked?

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2013 1:32:11
 
pjn

 

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to TANúñez) 
Greetings --

Sabicas walked in to the American Institute of Guitar on 54th Street unannounced on the Friday before he passed, in one of those loud plaid suits of his, wig somewhat askew; I was there as usual with Dennis Koster and Andy Nitkin, who ran the place, some assorted students and teachers.

The Maestro seemed disoriented, said he'd misplaced his keys and couldn't get in to his apartment; he lived around the corner on 8th Avenue, in a modern doorman building, so probably could have been let in with the "house copy."

At the time I had just been smitten with flamenco, although I was at the AIG doing our little publishing venture; and I was close to Dennis at that time, who was quite close with Sabicas -- so I got to play about 40 seconds por Garrotín with the Maestro before he asked for someone to accompany him home. A young Latin guy who was studying with Dennis was chosen, and out the door they went arm in arm.

An hour later the kid was back -- he had found the keys in Sabicas' pocket (where they had been all along), had gone upstairs and gotten the Maestro comfortable. There were guitar cases around.

Over the weekend the stroke happened, and he passed in the hospital. So there was ample opportunity for someone who knew where he lived, and that he wasn't at home, etc.; but Sabicas had a wife and daughter (who looked very much like him, poor woman lol). They were on the scene when he passed and it's quite possible it was they who grabbed the instruments. Also, Sabicas' brother Diego was very much around and for sure would have been aware of the instrument situation -- I'd ask Dennis what he knows if we were in touch these days.

OK that's it -- just a bit of history for ya.

Cheers, Jared
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2013 4:59:06
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to legrec) 
quote:

Ever heard or made a top replacement ? I'm curious to know if it's possible...


I have heard of a top replacement, done by a luthier on a guitar he built and he also builds violins, so I would guess that he used hide glue, which would make it a little easier.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2013 13:28:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Arash) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

bump!

Maybe interesting (and don't know if this was posted before): just saw this at Mundo Flamenco's website.

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/gitarren-gebraucht/355-gitarre-paco-de-lucias-unverkaeuflich


Sorry for another bump here... That RD discussion about this guitar got me going on this subject again.
So here is the first incarnation of the same guitar in question w original honey orange finish. This 1982, I just noticed thanks to higher quality video. I used to think this is the same guitar used in 1980, but I noticed the outer ring of rosette is different. So I think Paco used his brothers guitar from late 79 through 1981 trio tours mainly, based on concert vids. So he used this "hated" guitar from 1982 on, 32 years. Check 3:03 on:
http://youtu.be/EL18xRpwUoI

In 1983 it's still orange in Carmen movie see 1:20:
http://youtu.be/TASLh0baWUc

And he had it refinished in Red I guess in 1984 (date is wrong on upload):
http://youtu.be/QD6NaHforRQ
Sound changed I think, but kept it same until 1997 it seems.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2014 18:50:15
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
seams like that mundo flamenco link has changed.
Here is the correct link with some pictures

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/nc/en/box-special.html

The rosette in first two videos is definately different.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2014 7:17:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (in reply to Arash) 
quote:


The rosette in first two videos is definately different.


Not the OUTER RING, and inner ring...it is the exact same guitar. THe inner portion of tiles were replaced with the Carrillo style PDL model guitars red diamonds tiles.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 12 2014 19:27:06
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