Burguet/Gomalaca

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Burguet/Gomalaca

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krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

Burguet/Gomalaca

I play a Burguet 1F and I am about to do some reshaping of the neck near the headstock.
Problem is I'm not sure what the finish is. On the Burguet website the finish is given as 'Gomalaca'.
Does anyone know what this is? Is it cellulose lacquer? or maybe polyurathane? or melamine?
I'm guessing its a Spanish product.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 16:05:43

legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

If I don't mistake (some folks will correct me), gomalaca is the spanish word for the french polish technique. So I guess it's easier to repair/refresh than a laquer "a la pistola" (the "industrial" process). You could probably bring it to a luthier/builder, he will find the best way to do your reshaping/refinishing...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 16:16:58

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to legrec)

No I don't think its French polish. The finish is very hard and bright. It seems like a lacquer of some sort.
I've emailed the Burguet website so maybe they'll reply

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 16:26:02

legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

I was thinking gomalaca was indeed french polish, but at the same time, I was really wondering why Burguet would put FP on his 1F.
I would have supposed french polish would be reserved to his ABF models ? And you know, perhaps they won't be able to tell if this particular model was french polished or not (if they changes their method along the years). Probably the best way to go would still be to go for a luthier, even just for an identification/advice (of course perhaps you don't have a luthier close to your place).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 17:01:06

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

Gomalaca is French Polish. Burguets top models as well as the 1F are French polished. The 2F and 3F are lacquered. At least this was the deal in the past unless they've changed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 18:35:46

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to TANúñez)

Thanks for this info.
I'm pretty sure my gitar is not french polish, its much too ahrd and shiny.
I'm hoping the Burguet website will reply. The serial number is 016 from 2003 so maybe this early model had some sort of lacquer as Legrec suggests?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 18:45:08

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

quote:

I'm pretty sure my gitar is not french polish, its much too ahrd and shiny.

That's not really any indication as to whether or not it's French polish. I've seen some French polished guitars that look just like glass and appear to be very hard.

The best thing is to hope Burguet replies. Be sure to tell him what year it is. Perhaps he was doing lacquer on this model during a certain time period. More than likely, you'll get a response from Vanessa. I believe she is his daughter and fields most of the emails.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 19:40:56

legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

That's not really any indication as to whether or not it's French polish. I've seen some French polished guitars that look just like glass and appear to be very hard.

I was very close to say the same thing- but I guess it's better when it's a builder saying it..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 19:55:09

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

Unfortunately I have to say, that I'm very sure that you wont get any e-mail from Burguet. At least if your e-mail is written in English. I think I tried it three times and I have never received any response. Burguet himself canot speak English at all, and his daughter was also not very good at it (at least when I talked to her).

I have a guitar from him with Gomalaca, which is french polish.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2007 21:02:40

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to Georg)

Yes I suspect the same.
I have also emailed Casa Bennelly in Den Haag where i bought the guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2007 14:07:17

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

quote:

I'm pretty sure my gitar is not french polish, its much too ahrd and shiny.

That's not really any indication as to whether or not it's French polish. I've seen some French polished guitars that look just like glass and appear to be very hard.

Yes, I french polished the soundboard of a guitar recently, and it has a very hard and shiny appearance... almost like glass as Tom says. This can be done by applying the polish thickly (ie. building up lots and lots of layers) and then using micromesh to buff it up to virtually a mirror finish.

So if the Spanish translation for "gomalaca" is french polish, I would assume that that is what has been used.

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2007 14:25:10

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to TANúñez)

Is a lacquer finish regarded as inferior because it makes repair work much more difficult, or does it actually affect the sound?..(as opposed to thinking it would affect the sound).
Have any properly controlled trials actually been done on this?

I once mentioned to Anders that the best looking guitar I'd ever seen was a bright, glossy, Canary Yellow Blanca, sides exactly the same colour as the top...So intensely Yellow and Glossy that it would knock your damn eye out...

Anders was totally appalled..

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2007 14:51:26

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

A luthier told me that he doesn't build any guitars without french polished tops. Side and bottom aren't really that important.

The sound is better because french polish can be applied in much thinner layers than other finishes, which allows the top more to move. I canot say if he's right, but Anders should be able to

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2007 20:53:40

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to Ron.M)

Lacquer has come a long way. Many instrument lacquers can be applied very thin. I personally can not tell the difference on well applied lacquer vs. French polish.

Lacquer is also fairly easy to touch up.

The lacquer I used is formulated to expand so that when and if the wood underneath it expands, the lacquer will not develop tiny cracks. I still plan on learning French polish though. This is an artform all to itself.

Lacquer vs. French polish comes down to personal preference. Both with the maker and guitarists. If you ever see one of Aaron Green's guitars, you'll probably want French polish. This guys French polish is stunning.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2007 1:28:49

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

Casa Benelly has said this
'It is a special Gomalaca, what the can bring on with a pistol.
The results are very close to the real French polish, but easier and faster to work with.

So, its a kind of 'French Polish' as you guys are saying.

I'll do the job with french polish and let you know how it works out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2007 15:33:46

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

quote:

'It is a special Gomalaca, what the can bring on with a pistol.

French polish in a gun is no French polish IMO. It may be one of these pre-mixed French polishes in a container and they just shoot it in a gun???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2007 20:31:12

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to TANúñez)

French polish is a method of applying shellac, if you apply shellac with a sponge, a brush or spray gun it's not French polish.

John Shelton

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2007 22:49:58

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

Yes John.......... you're right to point out that french polish is a METHOD not a product although lots of people don't know this.
The point is i now know that its a shellac finish and not a modern lacquer.
So far I've applied 2 coats of sanding sealer and 2 of 'french polish' and its going well.

Its only a small area on the neck around the first three frets where I have reshaped it to suit my smaller hands. I've made it more rounded and less flat in that area.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2007 6:47:11

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

There are a lot of "french polishers" aplying shellack with a gun first and then finishing it all of with the pad. I cant see the difference. You dont have to use a special kind of shellack, you "just" have to know how to mix and spray. And then later on you´ll have to know how to make the whole thing look even and shine using your pad. And thats equally difficult as if you start with the pad.

You can also finish off with micromesh as James say. The problem is that its very time consuming.

As I said, the result is the same, the sound quality, the looks and especially the feel is the same.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2007 7:36:14

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I am well aware that there are people spraying shellac. How else would they achieve those orange colors while leaving the bone inlay and rosette natural? But the fact remains that if you spray or brush shellac it's a shellac finish. If you french polish over it you should rightly call it a shellac finish with french polish overcoat. Furthermore I do not agree that spraying or padding accomplishes the same effect. Spraying lays the finish on top of the surface while padding works it in much like brushing. It's unimportant to me since I use lacquer exclusively but the discussion was about terminology.

John Shelton

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2007 23:11:35

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

OK here's another question:
What would happen if you sprayed or brushed lacquer on top of shellac or vice versa?
Are they compatible ?

and what about other finishes such as Acrylics and Polyesters and polyurethanes and melamines??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2007 19:14:47

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Burguet/Gomalaca (in reply to krichards)

Nitrocellulose lacquer over shellac works fine, many builders use shellac as a sealer. Acrylic lacquer will also go over shellac as will most poly type finishes, I don't know about melamines. Basically from my experience almost any spirit based product will mix with nitrocellulose lacquer; however when you get into long chain molecule products like acrylics and poly's strange things can happen. Before mixing or overcoating it's best to try a test patch. Tints for nitrocellulose lacquer tend to be kind of weak and expensive. We eventually found that leather dyes work fine. They are alcohol based, cheap, extremely concentrated and have a myriad of colors for mixing. We were told they wouldn't work of course, sometimes the only way to learn about such things is to perform your own experiments. There is an amazing amount of mythology associated with guitar making.

John Shelton

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2007 21:54:57