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Did anybody watch Niño Jero?
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Escribano)
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My way of looking at it is flamenco and guitar are actually two seperate things, only tangentially linked. When we talk about guitar, we mean getting aroudn the fingerboard, being able to play chords and notes with precision and fluidity, rhythm, harmony, melody, dynamics.... but when we talk about flamenco, we are really talking about being able to speak a "language". The flamenco guitar is a percussion instrument, and although conga players tune their drum heads no one really cares if it's off a couple semitones. In flamenco, people basically want a cajon with a neck. There are bad guitarists who are good flamencos, in my opinion.
And... Chocolate is a bad singer, but a good flamenco! My voice teacher couldn't stop himself from laughing when he listened to the Gipsy King singer... I cant imagine what he would have said if he had heard Agujetas!
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Date Jan. 10 2005 14:56:33
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Guest
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RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M)
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Hola
If you have the great BBC documentary an Andalucian Journey, the final juerga, in Cadiz, features a much younger Niño Jero, with Jose Herrera on 2nd guitar. He was much more normal then. 
Sean
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Date Jan. 10 2005 21:42:57
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eslastra
Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA
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RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
quote:
It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone
I appreciate what you are saying there Eddie, but what I was talking about was just Niño Jero playing with a singer.
No others involved, so when he played a falseta, he was just on his own.
That's why I said that even stroking a single chord it was charged with "flamenco".
When I played the same chord it was not the same.
Not even close.
Why?
I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players in the same way that maybe Eric Clapton feels when hearing some of those great Delta Blues players with their roughly tuned guitars giving it heavy thumb with a little bit of tasty fingerwork compared to his own practised and refined stuff.
It's not a sound that's easily copied, although seems easy enough.
Remember perhaps Niño Jero plays that way because he likes the sound and not because he's not a good enough player to play lightning picado.
And when you play that simply for so long, then after decades you start to become a master of the "sounds inbetween the sounds" that makes his style and tone so difficult to imitate?
cheers
Ron
Ron,
Just trying to share my 2 cents worth FWIW I had to reread the entire thread to make sure I didn't misunderstand it. Similar to what you were saying, I was just trying to say too that there is a certain 'magic' I've observed that occurs when certain artists 'connect' that transcends technical perfection and musical style. It's that type of impact you can be hit with and be willing to 'forgive' the imperfections in exchange for 'fulfillment'. I'm one that is more impressed with this aspect of a performance rather than technical capabilities. If I want to listen to technical perfection, I put on a CD recording. I think that is a different type of listening pleasure.
In the example of Nino Jero, I don't see him or any cante accompanist as being totally on his own when playing a falseta, because he's drawn in a certain feeling from accompanying the singer and in response, his falseta is enhanced by this feeling. A good singer can really inspire and reach parts of the soul that an instrument can't. So even though it's the same old falseta he's played for years, just at this moment in time, there will be something a little different about it. As you say, it's been 'charged'. And what I was trying to say was that is something that can't be easily duplicated because it belonged to them at that moment. I think we understood the same thing, but from different angles? Forgive me for rambling 
_____________________________
Eddie Lastra
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Date Jan. 11 2005 0:28:22
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eslastra
Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA
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RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Eddie, don't apologize, let me apologize! I had a discussion with someone, I couldn't remember if it was you or Mark (don't ask me why those two names came up), about Eric Clapton. I was just making a little joke about it.... So, no you certainly didn't say anything wrong--your contribution here is very valuable and appreciated!
Miguel,
Whew, that makes me feel better, thanks  I wasn't sure if there was some humor there that I was supposed to catch but missed (I've been known to do that ), or if there was something else between the lines, if you know what I mean. Anyway, no offense taken. I was just concerned that I inadvertently slammed someone or something they said, and if I did, I certainly wanted to clear it up. 
_____________________________
Eddie Lastra
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Date Jan. 11 2005 5:05:25
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M)
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Hi Eddie,
IMO, the plain simple truth is that there are few accompanists as good as Tomatito, especially for rhythmic forms bulerias/tangos/solea, etc. Falsetas have little to do w/ it. It is more the way he plays chords and accents, helping the singer, letting him ride the waves comfortably. Paco does not close up phrases the same as Tomate. Moraito, Juan Habichuela, P. Cepero, are also good at this. Any guitarist can be good when it is rehearsed, but when there is improvisation, the singer needs someone to give them what they need to feel comfortable. Not that Paco and Vicente are not good, just that those other guys can really make the singer feel comfortable. Listen to Zambo sing w/ Moraito, then listen to how Tomatito plays for him. Both good, but different styles.
Ricardo
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Date Jan. 12 2005 23:31:47
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