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Loud guitar = flimsy guitar?   You are logged in as Guest
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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? 
I have noticed that it seems a little hard to find guitars that are loud, especially on the treble side. You can get some cedar-tops that can boom the basses a bit, but guitars that can really project their trebles seem somewhat elusive. And in gigging out with other musicians, it's very important. I am wondering if this is because there is an inverse relationship with sturdiness?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 17 2006 18:36:29
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
Hi MdM

I don't know about the physics but I have a blanca by V Perez Valbuena 1991 that's very loud yet it still has a dry crisp flamenco voice.
I saw it on GSI advertised as a 'Monster' and decided to go for it.
I hadn't heard of this maker before then but I have to say that it's a very good instrument.

Jim.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 17 2006 20:41:10
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
I also have a blanca that is very loud and the trebles are dominant. Must of been something I overlooked in it's construction. I want a more balanced guitar so I went back and changed some things but it is possible to have a loud treble guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 17 2006 22:37:56
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
Luthier Robert Hein had a some trebles that didn't quite keep up with the bases, so he's 'tightened up' the treble side by stiffening the treble braces. Brought things up near dead-even. Very nice.

I got lucky on mine. Seems pretty balanced AND loud (other's comments concur), but Reyes is well known for that, and I just followed Tom Blackshear's plans as close as I could, but the fan bracing pattern is a bit more complex than other plans I've studied... MY sides were down to a hair under 2mm thick (I went a bit too far!), and the top was probably rather close to the 2mm pattern.

Tom? Have you finished a Reyes yet??? Feedback against others, as you get to see and play many flamingo guitars..

My 2 cents..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 0:37:31
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
I think that the mid tones of a guitar are very important and very overlooked. It is always treble vs bass I hear about. If you have a bass feed back on a mic or sound system, you can increase the mids to get rid of it, without thinning out your overall sound.

So I would think the same logic would apply to a guitar top. If you get a good mid sound, you can give body and presence to the trebles, without making the guitar rumble, or lose bass. That presence CAN possibley translate into projection and perceived volume. Sorry I don't know how to relate that to the top thickness. But if you want stronger trebles in gigs, try putting the mids up a hair. The actual treble frequencies will brighten up the overall sound. So many guys I have seen want to cut mids from their live sound.

Problem with flamenco guitars is the need for low bridge, which by nature, means less volume for the sake of rapid playing response. So projection vs actual volume is important I think.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 7:30:15
 
DoctorX2k2

 

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Ramón) 
Ramon, I'm not sure that sanding your sides below 2mm is critical. Torres built some great guitars with 1mm sides. Probably more fragile though.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 13:24:18
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
quote:

I think that the mid tones of a guitar are very important and very overlooked


Yes, yes, yes and one more time yes

And no... They are not overlooked, at least not by me.
The dynamic range is the midrange, the growl, the bark the whatever you call it, the percussiveness playing rasgueados etc.

Its of course important that a guitar is loud when you play with other persons, but projection and clartity is what counts the most. There´s nothing worse than a guitar with lots of bottom loudness and sustain. Loudness is good, but percussiveness and clarity is very important, if not, it gets muddy.

Another thing is that a lot of players focus a lot on the 1st, 2nd and 6th string and not so much on the rest. In playing rasgueados, especially por medio, but also in general, its the 3rd and 4th string that really kicks you away. Flimsy 3rd and 4th string is the worst. And in order to have strong, a good strong midrange is essential.

To this we add the capacity to distort slightly, but thats another story and maybe another thread

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 16:12:26
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
quote:

Its of course important that a guitar is loud when you play with other persons, but projection and clartity is what counts the most. There´s nothing worse than a guitar with lots of bottom loudness and sustain. Loudness is good, but percussiveness and clarity is very important, if not, it gets muddy.


You have no idea how good it feels hearing that! Man, i have got to try one of your guitars out, are you ever back in DK?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 16:29:37
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
I think Anders sent one of his guitars to DK when he sent mine to sweden.
Maybe it was to a foro member.

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Don't give up...
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Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2006 16:42:40
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
Sonikete,

Where do you live. I have a Negra in Aarhus and a Blanca in Jönkjöping and I´m sure you can try them both if you are near.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 19 2006 17:39:31
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