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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (in reply to Guest)
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I am on here because I can't really play my guitar at this moment, or have a juerga, or work. Everyone is going to bed, I am not tired so here I am. All day was with family, no flamenco stuff until now, and this is just talking about it.
So I don't think to know where a cante comes from helps you accompany it, sing, or dance it. The reverse could be true, one could execute it quite well if one learned correctly, and did not even know what it was called. I have seen this with guitar students that spent just a few months in spain with gitanos, and came back playing solea por bulerias compas and a few falsetas of Tomatito, just perfect. Did not know who composed it or what it was called or used for, but could do it better than most bookworm flamencologists.
I think if you find yourself studying up so much you know when a good artist is doing it "wrong", then you have got it all backwards. Of course if you CAN do it (sing it or dance it or play it "right") then that is different. But basically if you find yourself argueing with the flamencos, then you are probably too much of a bookworm. The best thing is to be physically involved of course.
The Caña thing is very trivial. You have to just go with the dancer. Best to practice it twice so you know that it will always be the same. But eventually you can just "sense" if you need to make it longer or not. I dont' think 6 or 7 beats. I just keep it pretty free and try to be tight with any rhythmic sounds, and not rush the singer through it. (redoble for example on the arepegio)
About doing your own thing, it is certainly good as long as it is concidered "flamenco" by your peers. In my experience there are some that start composing their own stuff a little prematurely and are missing out on some important details hidden subtle in the work of the maestros. Then they think they are "advancing " by doing their own thing, and get put off when an aficionado says "something is missing....". But of course there are those that only play trad falsetas and rhythms. But honestly for flamenco, that is OK. Ideally the guitarist will compose his own stuff after getting a foundation in the traditions.
It has been said before that young players are starting with modern PDL and Amigo as a base, and that is not good. I would tend to agree, but it really depends on the final product.
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2006 2:30:28
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
a great ear and miss stuff all the time
You mean tonos, compas? Sure mistakes are made, but that was because they did not know where a cante came from in the flamenco encylopedia? Nah.
quote:
If you aren't listening actively you aren't going to notice it is "wrong." Point being that it is the listening or studying that is important.
I guess my point is for accompanying, it did not matter how you are used to hearing it, you have to get it correct in the moment. For the guys standing in the back with their arms folded across their chests saying "that is not how it goes"...well, too bad for them. But we are generalizing. So its much better to have specific examples.
I saw a guy accompany this singer por Alegrias. He did fine all along. But then the singer tried something new "El un marinero en tierra" by vicente. I know those chords. The Accompanist did not get them, but he played chords that worked fine. I mean the idea that he did not study that, did it wrong, but it is still good performance and "flamenco", THAT is my point. My bookworm ass could not have done an overall better job just because I knew some fancier "correct" chords. It might have seemed worked out anyway, and only the singer and I would have known I got it on the fly.
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As for the cana, that has very specific remates depending on whether it is danced or sung only. If it is danced it will often be 7 beats and out of compas. That is not the only way but again, chance favors the prepared mind.
Ok, fine that you look at it that way. For me it is a very minor simple thing in the big picture of the entire dance, or entire show. I mean do you really sit there thinking that little part had an extra beat and is therefore out of compas? I mean, yeah I guess it is technically, but that is just how it is done, so what is the big deal? Just go with what is required, no need to make a big intellectual compas revelation about a little arpegio ending. 
Ok, but I know flamenco is fun, and it is fun to anaylize beats and stuff. I am just saying no need to go overboard.
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How did you get to be a flamenco nerd, you seem kind of elitist as a flamenco nerd
Well I simply awarded myself that title and had a private ceremony over it. Nothing to be especially proud of, it is common amongst those of us born in the wrong country. 
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2006 3:35:26
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (in reply to Guest)
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Now I've never been in Spain with the gypsies so what I write here may be wrong, but it's what I think with my experience.
For me there's two important elements to playing music right - correct rhythm and chords (purely technical) and the emotion which goes into it, giving it a certain flavor. I don't mean "playing with feeling", I mean the basic interpretation of what a song should express. I could imagine the need to understand what the singer is singing to feel with him and put the peaks and valleys in the right places, but I'm not sure about origin.
Lots of people speak the English language not knowing which elements are anglosaxon or latin, they still speak it correctly if they understand the meaning.
Some origins I choose to ignore. When I accompany a guajira I like to imagine the dancers with their fans flirting with the male audience and not some fat farmer strolling though the fields... 
As far as living flamenco... This could mean spending the whole day everyday having something to do with the music, which I wish so much I could do. In the other sense of the attitude towards life, I never really understood that. At least living outside of Spain that to me has absolutely no meaning. Surely I'm missing something or there wouldn't be so many people talking about it.
I do have a subscription to two flamenco mags, one local and one from Spain. It helps to know what's out there and to read what highly respected flamencos think about questions such as these. As one would think, age plays an important role. Also you do read names, songs and techniques over and over and eventually a lot of information sticks...
No real pro or con here, just a bunch of thoughts in no particular order...
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2006 10:48:13
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