Picado/scales differing techniques

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Nemo Nint

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul. 20 2006

Picado/scales differing techniques

Hi all

I have just been considering...

What is the different preferences between using tirando and apoyando for picado/scales?

When I first started, the method that was expressed was to use apoyando, but I couldn't get into it. also, with longer finger nails for playing rasgueados and just fingerpicking in non-flamenco songs, I couldn't get the proper apoyando technique so I have worked on playing with free strokes.

I am thinking that playing apoyando has some advantage over tirando, though if someone is going up from bass strings to treble strings playing apoyando, they will be immediately muting the lower string, and that's one other reason I use tirando. But what are other thoughts?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2006 17:52:21

tmock

Posts: 143
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
From: New York, New York

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Nemo Nint)

This question was already discussed here. Here's a link to a thread about the free stroke/rest stroke question:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=14623&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=free%2Cstroke&tmode=&smode=&s=#14623

The summary seems to be that it depends. It depends on your style, the song, your technique, strings, guiter, register, ascending or descending, etc. Some people can make free stroke sound very much like rest stroke. Most of the time flamencos want the bite and the dampening of sustain and overtones that rest stroke provides. Sometimes not, though. Nunez does these insanely quick four note picado runs (basically a single tremelo rolls) that I'm pretty sure are all free stroke. So the amount of free stroke you use is up to you, but you're probably limiting yourself by playing all of your flamenco with free stroke.

If the length of your nails is prohibitive, you may want to shorten them a bit. I don't know what non-flamenco music you play that would require really long nails, but you can keep a flamenco sound with shorter nails. I moved from longer nails to shorter ones, and it does change the feel and the tone a little, but you can adjust to those things. I won't go into my thoughts on that unless you're considering giving it a try.

best,
Travis.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2006 16:42:47

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Nemo Nint)

if you got nails that long (that it stops you from apoyando) you need to file them down

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2006 17:53:30

Nemo Nint

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul. 20 2006

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Nemo Nint)

Thanks for the replies!

If this was already discussed, perhaps a board modification should be made to make it and others more accessible.... An area under Discussions for threads that are good for reference... where threads like that one get moved.

I've only been playing flamenco for a 15 months but I guess it's just taking time to determine the proper length. Problem is if I file the nails for apoyando picado, then I can no longer do tremolo on any strings except the high E string. Oh well.

It's disappointing that so many discussions seem to have been brought up before and it takes a while for people to get the URL before posting a single reply. I appreciate the link though very much!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2006 17:30:49

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Nemo Nint)

From a classical point of view, there's no reason why you can't do tremolo on the inner strings with shorter nails. It's not about nail length in this case, it's about practice and technique. You shouldn't be relying on using only the tip of your nails to pluck the strings.

Good luck with it. Slow and careful practice will do the trick.

Cheers,
Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2006 11:35:03

tmock

Posts: 143
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
From: New York, New York

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Skai)

quote:

You shouldn't be relying on using only the tip of your nails to pluck the strings.

Agreed. This is one of the things I was thinking about when I mentioned adapting to shorter nails. When I had longer nails, I played everything pretty much on the nails, even playing stacatto, which I did by stopping the string with the underside of the nail. When I shortened my nails, I also had trouble with temelo on the G string especially, because I couldn't get enough resistance with just the nail to get a decent sound.

The key is to learn to touch the string with the tip of the finger and then the nail. It completely changes the feel of resistance in the stroke, which will throw you off for a bit. But as Skai says, take it slow and you'll get the hang of it. I think you'll prefer this technique after you get comfortable with it.

Travis.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2006 15:40:59

Nemo Nint

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul. 20 2006

RE: Picado/scales differing techniques (in reply to Nemo Nint)

Wow, much more descriptive.. this is very much what I was wondering.
Althoughnow that you have mentioned it, somewhere in the far past I think I heard something about touching the tip of the finger before using the nail... but that memory got lost with the rest of the quick trivia I don't spend time with learning studiously.

Thanks Tmock, Skai very much. Your explanations and encouragement are greatly appreciated!!

Additionally - What I mentioned before, about another area of the board- It only works on message boards where an adminstrator has the ability to move a thread from one forum area to another. Otherwise, of course, there is no way to "archive" or make a thread really immediately accessible... other than making it a sticky thread. This is an idea from a previous board I was a member of, and the forum was called "Permathreads". Something like the "Resources" under "Useful Stuff", except the Resources area seems to be more links to other sites than threads of discussions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2006 23:45:17