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Almansa guitars and the new 2006 Yamaha flamenco model   You are logged in as Guest
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labdal

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug. 8 2006
 

Almansa guitars and the new 2006 Yam... 
Hello all,


Any opinions on Almansa guitars and also on the new Yamaha 2006 flamenco model? I dont know the exact Yamaha model number, but I got this information from a Yamaha catalog. The same Yamaha guitar, but without the golpeador and the rossete is recomended for Bossa Nova guitar playing. Did someone have a chance to test this Yamaha model and also what about the Almansa company, are they a good company, I am interested in their flamenco models? Thanks.


Regards.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 11:59:08

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
quote:

I dont know the exact Yamaha model number, but I got this information from a Yamaha catalog. The same Yamaha guitar, but without the golpeador and the rossete is recomended for Bossa Nova guitar playing.


Huh? Whats the point of that? A flamenco guitar should have golpeadores, IMO, end of story. Why would you want to remove them? And the rosette makes very little difference to the sound of the guitar- its just decoration. Bossa Nova, eh? well, that might be why... if its a Bossa Nova model and not a Flamenco one. But for Flamenco, the CG171SF is the model that comes with golpeadores.

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 12:32:13
 
labdal

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug. 8 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Hi,


There is a bit of missunderstanding, the Yamaha produces 2 new 2006 models, one for Bossa Nova and the other one for flamenco. But, the difference between the models is that one is missing the golpeador and the rossete is different. They are the same in construction(same wood), the action is lower then in clasical models and the tone is more resonant and more "fat", as its stated in the catalog. I live in Croatia and within this new english written catalog the CG-171SF is positioned within the classical guitar section!!! This is kind of strange, as I had a chance to play the CG-171SF which is really a flamenco model, but unfortunatelly I dont like the tone. Altough, many people say that guitars with tops made of spruce intend to open up, I am not really sure about this issue as I never experienced it by myself. To me, the volume of the Yamaha is insufficient and something in my opinion is missing.

Regards.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 12:45:58

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Labdal,

The yamaha is just cheap, factory made guitar. They sound okay for the price you pay for them, but IMO they do not compare to a decent hand made guitar. Although apparently, there is a hand-made yamaha flamenco guitar that costs a lot more.

Please try and provide a model number and price for the "new 2006 yamaha", as I am keen to see what the difference is between that and the model I own.

Thanks,

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 12:58:02

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Aha, I think you mean this one:

http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/uk/10_musical_instruments/30_guitars_basses_amps/50_handcrafted_guitars/10_handcrafted_guitars/30_gc_gcx_guitars/09_CGFL1/index.html

But if I understand correctly, this is one of the more expensive hand-made yamaha Flamenco guitars.

Well, I haven't played one such as this, but I would guess that it can only be an improvement over the cheap Yamaha. The trouble is, if you're going to spend a lot of money on a guitar, there are many other luthiers to choose from...

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 13:10:06
 
deyo

Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 12 2006
From: Croatia

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
labdal, ja sam prije par tjedana kupio Yamahu CG 171-SF u Cakovcu u Euro-unitu. Gitara je fenomenalna, pravi flamenco model. imas u ovom istom boardu topic Yamaha CG-171-SF koji sam ja otvorio sa slikama gitare i prvim iskustvima. Mogu ti je samo toplo preporuciti ako ne ciljas na profesionalne flamenco modele od par tisuca eura. Zvuk mozes poslusati u audio dijelu, stvar se zove rumba. Pitaj ako te sta zanima!

pozdrav, deyo

_____________________________

www.soundclick.com/deyo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 13:11:41
 
labdal

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug. 8 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Hi,


The name of the new Yamaha flamenco model is CGFL1. The Bossa Nova variant, which is very similar is CGBN1. On the Yamaha musical instruments website section they are under the "handcrafted" section. Now, I am not sure are they in fact the same handcrafted models you were already talking about or this is something completely new?? When I was in the shop last week and asked the salesman for the price of the CGFL1 he replied its practically the same as CG-171SF, but they didn't have them in the shop, so I could not test them. I am not really sure now it this kind of a mix-up situation, as you stated the handcrafted Yamaha models are much expensive.


Rgds
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 13:21:50

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
quote:

Now, I am not sure are they in fact the same handcrafted models you were already talking about or this is something completely new?? When I was in the shop last week and asked the salesman for the price of the CGFL1 he replied its practically the same as CG-171SF, but they didn't have them in the shop, so I could not test them. I am not really sure now it this kind of a mix-up situation, as you stated the handcrafted Yamaha models are much expensive.


Labdal,

As far as I know, there has ALWAYS been a hand-made Yamaha Flamenco guitar, aswell as the cheaper factory made one. I can't quote a price for the hand made one, because it varies from place to place, but it IS more expensive than the factory made Yamaha as ALL hand made guitars are usually more expensive than factory made ones. I belive another member, "Skai" once tested the hand made Yamaha, but decided against buying it. The trouble is, why buy a hand made yamaha when you can buy a better hand made guitar from another luthier for the same price? BUT, if the shop you went to is selling the hand made yamaha for the same price as the factory made yamaha, then I would buy it... it may not quite be the best guitar, but for that price, it doesn't matter!

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 13:43:03
 
labdal

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug. 8 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Hi,



I found on several sites on the internet, one European webpage and the other one is Japanese, that the price of the CGBN1 and CGFL1 is around 430 Euro. For example, http://kakuyasunavi.com/pro3244f. The prices are in yens. This comes around 430 Euro when converted. It does not look that much for a handcrafted guitar as both guitars are listed under the handcrafted Yamaha guitar section?! How is this possible?

Rgds.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 14:45:59

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
quote:

I found on several sites on the internet, one European webpage and the other one is Japanese, that the price of the CGBN1 and CGFL1 is around 430 Euro. For example, http://kakuyasunavi.com/pro3244f. The prices are in yens. This comes around 430 Euro when converted. It does not look that much for a handcrafted guitar as both guitars are listed under the handcrafted Yamaha guitar section?! How is this possible?


Labdal,

You are right... 430 Euros is very cheap for a hand made guitar. Perhaps too cheap. If I were you, I would contact Yamaha directly to find out if the guitar is really hand made. "hand made" or "hand crafted" is not always an accurate description, as it sometimes refers just to some parts of the guitar (rather than the whole guitar), or each piece is hand made by a different person in a production line. If the guitar IS truly hand made, then the price is good. BUT that doesn't necessarily mean it will sound good. You said you didn't like the sound of the CG171SF you tried, so I would suspect that you have high standards. I am fairly happy with my CG171SF, but only because it was fairly cheap. If the CGFL1 is handmade, I would assume that it is slightly better than the CG171SF. But the only way to tell would be to test one in person. If going by anyone else's opinions who has tested the guitar, do bear in mind that you didn't like the CG171SF, whereas most people feel it is a good guitar for the price. I suspect you are looking for a guitar that sounds "perfect", but don't want to pay high prices. Unfortunately, you might have to pay a bit more for a "pefect" sounding guitar.

Good luck!

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 18 2006 15:20:48
 
labdal

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug. 8 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
Hi Jb,

What do you think, is it possible to compare the Hermanos Sanchiz Lopez 2F guitar model(around 1100 Euro) with the Yamaha CG-171SF? Or in other words, how much better in your opinion in sound, playing feeling and quality is this guitar then the CG-171SF? I never had a chance to play this guitar as its not possible for me to test it here in Croatia, so if you had any experience with the 2F, please could you share it. Thanks.


Rgds
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2006 8:35:46
 
lukemoon

 

Posts: 60
Joined: Aug. 6 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
The 2f is a great sounding flamenco guitar. I have played both and recommend the 2f above the yahama I´d say the price/quality ratio is good for both guitars.
But the RS 2f has a very good flamenco sound.

It´s a pity there used to be a 3f but they stopped making them.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2006 8:57:29

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
quote:

is it possible to compare the Hermanos Sanchiz Lopez 2F guitar model(around 1100 Euro) with the Yamaha CG-171SF? Or in other words, how much better in your opinion in sound, playing feeling and quality is this guitar then the CG-171SF?


I completely agree with Lukemoon. I have played both guitars, and thought they were good value, but I would definitely go for the Sanchiz Lopez 2F instead of the Yamaha. IMO it is a step up from the CG171SF, and if I could have afforded one, I probably would have bought one instead of my yamaha.

Let us know what you decide.

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2006 9:44:43
 
bernd

 

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to labdal) 
I´ve checked some Almansa guitars. To be honestly I checked only 1 model but different guitars. It was model number 447. If I had the choice between an Almansa 447 and the Yamaha, then I´d directly shoot the Yamaha to the moon.

I thought about buying the 447 as a second or travel guitar. It has all solid woods and is available with cutaway and Fishman pickup. Some lucky guy got it on eBay for just 400 Euro: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270024975813&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:DE:1

Saludos
Bernd

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2006 23:52:10
 
RubenSevilla

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Sep. 20 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to bernd) 
Hello labdal,

Almansa and Yamaha - both of them are big companies and they build more then 100.000 guitars in a year.

I think it is hard to find a good flamenco guitar from a big factory. Once you have tried a good handmade flamenco guitar, you will burn down these factory guitars...:)...

I would advice to go for a Sanchis, Romero or Bernal guitar. They are offering good guitars for a top price.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2006 10:40:36
 
bernd

 

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to RubenSevilla) 
Hi Ruben,

a little bit off topic:
100.000 guitars a year? Afaik the biggest guitar production in Spain is Guitarras Mervi de Valencia who produce about 20.000 to 25.000 guitars a year. Where do you have the info from?

Saludos
Bernd

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2006 9:01:22
 
bernd

 

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to JBASHORUN) 
I´ve read the info on the Yamaha CGFL1. It´s stated to be handmade. Woods are solid spruce, back & sides of cypress but not solid. So we have a handmade plywood flamenca. Also mentioned is a good playability. This should include the action at the bridge. A traditional transparent ‘Goldpeadors’ Pickguard on both sides of the soundhole protects the top from scratches. It has a 2 part golpeador that PORODUCES scratches under the strings.

To me it´s all the same old shi... with these "handmade" flamencas by mass production companies out of Spain. As mentioned at other place the SF 171 needs to be tested because the quality range of this model is obviously different. Here they put a 2 part golpeador on a hand made guitar. Maybe the maker was also made by hand! They are not able to make properly flamenco guitars.

Saludos
Bernd

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2006 9:18:58
 
RubenSevilla

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Sep. 20 2006
 

RE: Almansa guitars and the new 2006... (in reply to bernd) 
Yes, Bernd, Mervi is also big company with sales figures of about EUR 400.000,-- per year. So if they sell 20000 pieces per year, every guitar costs about 20 EUR.
There must be a fault in this calculation :).

I think we should not discuss about company internals in public forums !!!

But you can send me an email, if you want to have more informations about spanish guitar manufactorys. :)

Hasta luego,

Rubén
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2006 9:23:54
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