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Ways of learning new compositions?   You are logged in as Guest
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Nemo Nint

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul. 20 2006
 

Ways of learning new compositions? 
Hi all.

What do you all think for your preferred way of learning new-to-yourself compositions?

When tab and standard notation are both available, is the preference for tab a lot stronger, or do you learn/comprehend/retain the knowledge better if it's in standard notation?

Also, do any of you try to learn songs without hearing them first?

I think listening to them probably makes the actual learning go faster because one can take less time getting into long-term memory.

Just thinking, wondering... wondering.. thinking.


Oh yes, and how many of you are holding your guitars as you read this? hehehe
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 3:57:01
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
In flamenco, its not possible to write down the feeling of the compositions like maybe in some classic-guitar-pices. So without hearing the original its often not possible to play learned falsetas good. The newer compositions are often very complicated..and without hearing the track before the tab often dont make any sense, coz its really hard to read all the offbeats and tricks...

Notation isnt important in flamenco. In flamenco, the music is important and not how you write it down. You can learn it however you want if you can play it with feeling after. In newer tabs (I think all tabs which are produced today) have the speedlines of normal notation added on the numbers. So there is no need for notation for guitar. Maybe for other instruments, coz its not possible to write a tab for flute..

Notation is important for music-theory. But for learning new pieces, it slows you down if you arent trained.

I hope that helped.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 8:29:50
 
Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
I'm sure I will be the oddball here again, but I use the standard notation as I was required to learn it early on. Moreover, I have found that tabs do not contain the note values, eg Whole/Half/Quarter/Dotted, etc and sometimes do not contain all the articulations (frequently ties, barres and positions) nor usually the LH fingerings which are sometimes helpful to me when learning a piece. So for me this prevents having to go back and forth from tab to notation, tab to notation. For me tabs are just as foreign as notation is for many others. Still, on occasion I do use tabs, mostly when I come across a chord which I don't immediately recognize from the notes, but thats becoming rarer and rarer now.

Speaking strictly for myself I also somehow find it satisfying to know that the number 9 position on the 5th string is a F# and not simply a Number 9.

I try to learn about four measures at a time (sometimes more, depending upon how repetitious it is) until I have a complete phrase/section (chording compas or falseta) learned/memorized. Then move on to the next one while trying to build speed and precision on the one(s) I have just learned. Normally, I sacrifice speed for precision and play very slowly for quite a while.

I have also found that listening to a piece, if I can find it, helps me a lot.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 10:32:57
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
No problem Gecko!
I learned the theory too in past. And I also learned a rondena with alterated stings and difficult notation of Paco only with notes. But Tabs are more confortable to read for me.
Its cool that you can read notes so fast. hmm I remember a Solea and Farruca of Sabicas which I played from paper live for the audience. huuh..hehe.. Now Im addled. I just wanna have the music in my head and not black dots. And I think notation in flamenco is and endangered thing.

and if I put a capo in the 2nd or 3rg fret. In the 9th fret isnt a F# anymore... but still a 9.
Everyone should learn how he like... But I think notation and tab are both only a medium for the aim. The aim to make music and not analyzing names of notes. IMO

When I learn new falsetas which are a bit more complicated, I use software like wavlab or transcribe! and play together with the slowed down original. I think thats a good way. You can hear every accent, offbeat and much more while hearing and playing with the original.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 11:44:20
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Doitsujin)1 votes
i read both very well and that can be disturbing soethings cause i then to wonder with my eyes going from the tab to the notation and so on.
I like Alain Fauchers tab cause it´s tab with rythm beams, With tab you don´t have to find the best possition since it´s already there and that makes it faster.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 13:10:27
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
Nemo,
I think the best way is to learn purely by ear. My reason for saying this is that music is an aural, not a visual art, and the stronger you can connect the ear to the fingers, the more masterful you will be. Someone who can't learn something by ear is missing something very important. The difference between someone with a good ear and someone with a good eye is listening to Ron's rasgueados versus some sloppy Paco falsetas. I don't think there are any top flamencos who learned with tab. By the way, Grisha learned his Paco by ear, when he was a little kid. Todd learns by ear too. See the pattern?

That being said, it does take a lot of work (and time) and not everyone is up for it. In that case, the best way is to still listen, but use the tab or the notation to find the notes. Don't get too caught up in the intricacies of the notation style, because again it's music and what you hear is a lot more important than what you see.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 14:58:31
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
if i want to learn a piece i alway listen to know it to learn all of it in my head first.
Then i´t so much easyer to remember how to play it.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 15:07:01
 
Nemo Nint

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Jul. 20 2006
 

RE: Ways of learning new compositions? (in reply to Nemo Nint) 
Hey everyone, thanks very very much for your great replies!

Sometimes, I'm very masochistic and I make things too hard, but I think that way I'll end up being stronger in the end.

So far, I"m just learning falseta bits and I"m all over the place with skill. I think most the time I"m okay (for my own enjoyment) but other times I have terrible mistakes constantly.

But playing by standard notation is harder yet it sticks in my head easier. Playing by tab is easier but it takes longer for me to remember it, unless I hear the composition in a recording- then it's really easy for me to pick up.

But I"m going to give that learning by ear a go. I don't have the patience to learn flamenco by ear (yet) because I am not fast enough, and I don't have perfect, nor relative pitch. I'm working on those! I'll work with orchestral classical-type songs for a bit, before I try flamenco ear-training.

@duende: I also find my eyes jumping between notation and tab in books when they're on top of eachother, and I get messed up a lot. I've been reading a lot of the older threads on this forum and I think I need to concentrate a lot more!

I'm still new at this flamenco music, really. It's more intellectual than instinct & inspired.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2006 18:58:06
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