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Family of flamenco star Paco de Lucía win full rights to songs
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Paul Magnussen
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
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 Family of flamenco star Paco de Luc...
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From The Times, April 13:
The family of the renowned flamenco guitarist Paco de Lucía has won a landmark court case for the full rights of his most important songs after a 13-year legal battle.
The influential guitarist, who expanded the international audience for flamenco and fused it with other musical styles, died in 2014 aged 66. But before his death, Lucía Sánchez, one of his daughters and a lawyer, noticed that José Torregrosa, her father’s producer, had claimed half of the songwriter’s rights.
“I realised that many of the composer’s rights of his songs are listed as only 50 per cent as his, including his great hit Entre dos aguas,” Sánchez told El País. When she told her father in 2010 “he turned white, he couldn’t believe it”, she added.
From that moment Sánchez launched a legal campaign to win her father full rights for his song.
A ruling by a court in Madrid requires Torregrosa’s family to return 100 per cent of the income received from the copyright of 37 songs by Paco de Lucía to his relatives, acknowledging his sole authorship of the works.
Torregrosa collaborated with Paco de Lucía by transcribing the scores for his pieces, for which he charged 50 per cent of the royalties as arranger and co-author. Since Torregrosa’s death in 2007, his family has continued to receive the same percentage.
It was not revealed how much the compensation will be but the works include his most successful songs, including international hits. The ruling also declared that Torregrosa violated the maestro’s moral copyright by attributing co-authorship of the works and ordered the defendants to pay €10,000 to the family of Paco de Lucía.
[etc.]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/family-of-flamenco-star-paco-de-lucia-win-full-rights-to-songs-9gmft8f7k
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Date Apr. 19 2023 18:38:49
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Family of flamenco star Paco de ... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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quote:
Entre dos aguas,
Beat me to it. Faustino Nuñez posted this on facebook, having some hand in it. I said, he should get only 34 songs back because Entre dos Aguas/Tangos was a rip from Las Grecas.  Anyway, I think I had talked about this at some point many years back.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=177073&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=torregrosa&tmode=&smode=&s=#177238
I think, in this case, it is a bit of a double edge sword situation, where, he was helping young paco to get some extra long-term royalty (as paco could not write music himself, someone that worked for Polygram would still have gotten paid for doing those bad transcriptions) as once it was in the form of (c) in addition to (p), the publisher was obligated to keep putting out those bad versions to secure royalty. The bad part was that Torregrosa was taking advantage of the situation, thinking nobody would notice or care that he was pretending authorship for doing that job. So, to be fair to the family of Torregrosa who was not truly responsible after he died, I would give Paco’s heirs, only the amounts corresponding to 50% of (p).
Also, to complicate things a bit. If you guys remember when Camaron died, their family hit Paco up pretty hard for the same thing, considering that Paco was only accompanying the cante that he had no right to claim authorship royalty. Another double edge sword situation, cuz Paco ended up paying some thousands to Camaron’s widow… I have one old transcription book where authorship is shared between Paco and Antonio Fernandez Diaz (Fosforito??), but I would not be surprised if Torregrosa transcribed those as well, yet does not claim any credit.
Here is one of my quotes that gets more into the sentiment about the parasitic nature of taking advantage of a situation like this, and regarding the “music theory exam” requirement to collect royalties:
quote:
About torregrossa... He wrote wrong fly poop [standard music notation] to sell so Paco (and family with Camaron records) could collect (c) royalties in addition to (p) royalties. What a nice guy. Of course I realized, as a music business student in college, what an easy way for no talent mediocrity to leech money off of the talents of others simply due to ignorance about the biz, and ability to "read and write" ie "know" music. Mr. Tore gross ah, also was receiving his not so fair share of both (c) and (p), as if HE composed a SINGLE FREAKIN NOTE, thanks to his AMAZING ABILITY (sarcasm) to read and write standard notation. You can already guess my feelings about this so called "music exam" one needs to pass in Spain and FOR WHAT REASON IT WAS DESIGNED.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 20 2023 11:44:52
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Family of flamenco star Paco de ... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
But Camaron and Paco were billed as a dynamic team, and Paco as a phenomenon carried Camaron somewhat.
Truth is, Camaron probably was along for the ride with Paco, as Paco loved him very much and pushed those projects. In Rito, Camaron admits with Cepero next to him, that his bad quality cassette version of Canastera with Cepero is far superior to the recorded version. The Camaron episode features a ficticious studio recording, mimicking the set as if it was how all the famous PDL collaborations went, however, with Cepero… an event that never really occurred (compare to Mairena shown in studio with his true accompanist Melchor), and it was not like PDL was not “available”.
Further insult to injury is how the juerga with Turronero again shows the guitar for cante in the hand of Cepero with PDL adding nuckles on the table, until his guitar solo. Basically, a “solista” is a put down in proper flamenco circles, and it is what they are implying about PDL. And last, PDL does his Rondeña and Camaron just steps out of the scene with Cepero, leaving Turronero alone to support. It is very subtle but noticeable to me. PDL stopped accompanying Camaron in public around this time, as he was embarrassed about getting accolades afterwards. Subsequent productions always had Tomatito involved. It is no mystery (to me, anyway) why there exists no footage, other than that one bulerias of the two performing.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 20 2023 12:59:08
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estebanana
Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Family of flamenco star Paco de ... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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Have any if you ever read this book by Paco Sevilla? Came out in 1995.
I read it in 1997, it’s interesting because it recounts some history on how Camaron and PDL got started. There’s one funny anecdote about how Camaron thought he was the big cheeseburger. He was very young and said something to Paco or someone else that he would put in a word for them to get a record deal too. This was after Camaron was still newly discovered and Paco had already had records of his own.
I gave the book away shortly after I read it, so I can’t consult it, but if anyone happens to have it I’d be interested in reviewing that but of Camaronian chutzpa.
I think the only books on flamenco I have read are this Paco Sevilla book, the Pohren book on the finca, the crazy David George book with interviews from Diego dG and Manuel Reyes and last but not least Gerald Howson’s book.
Ah also Returning to A, that book wasn’t that great. Dorien Ross wrote that. I met her a few times, she was outrageous. She said, and I quote directly: “I’ve given enough blowjobs to members of that family of guitarists that I should be named Dorien del Gastor.”
I kid you not, she said that.
Howson’s book Flamencos of Cadiz Bay, I think is one of the best ‘new journalism’ books I’ve ever read. He’s not just a flamenco writer, but a fantastic writer. Like a mix of Tom Wolff and Hunter Thomson without LSD and cocaine. Dorian’s book, while interesting has a major problem in that the driving force in the book that motivates the characters involved to go in a road trip ends up not working very well. And that she kind of revels in the sexism she encountered because it was a way of getting attention. Since everyone directly involved is no longer alive ( except two who shall go unnamed) I guess it’s ok to say that.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 21 2023 2:39:32
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estebanana
Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Family of flamenco star Paco de ... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
But Camaron and Paco were billed as a dynamic team, and Paco as a phenomenon carried Camaron somewhat.
Truth is, Camaron probably was along for the ride with Paco, as Paco loved him very much and pushed those projects. In Rito, Camaron admits with Cepero next to him, that his bad quality cassette version of Canastera with Cepero is far superior to the recorded version. The Camaron episode features a ficticious studio recording, mimicking the set as if it was how all the famous PDL collaborations went, however, with Cepero… an event that never really occurred (compare to Mairena shown in studio with his true accompanist Melchor), and it was not like PDL was not “available”.
Further insult to injury is how the juerga with Turronero again shows the guitar for cante in the hand of Cepero with PDL adding nuckles on the table, until his guitar solo. Basically, a “solista” is a put down in proper flamenco circles, and it is what they are implying about PDL. And last, PDL does his Rondeña and Camaron just steps out of the scene with Cepero, leaving Turronero alone to support. It is very subtle but noticeable to me. PDL stopped accompanying Camaron in public around this time, as he was embarrassed about getting accolades afterwards. Subsequent productions always had Tomatito involved. It is no mystery (to me, anyway) why there exists no footage, other than that one bulerias of the two performing.
The live album with Tomatito and Camaron is a study in how to have an alzapua like a pneumatic air wrench used in a garage to take lug nuts on and off truck tires. For that alone Tomatito deserves accolades.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 21 2023 2:50:53
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Ricardo
Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Family of flamenco star Paco de ... (in reply to kitarist)
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In la Busqueda he amends that first encounter a bit, to admit he was not so impressed with his orthodox Solea. That it was later hanging out with Parrilla de Jerez (they wanted to check out his hot sister) that he heard Camaron sing, and everybody was sort of normally impressed, but Paco was blown away, and it was then that he seriously wanted to make a recording. This would have to have been, latest, in 1969 or so.
About Dorian Ross, yes weird book honestly. Although not surprising, Pohren’s book inspired a lot of free-love hippies to go back packing to spain.
quote:
Ah also Returning to A, that book wasn’t that great. Dorien Ross wrote that. I met her a few times, she was outrageous. She said, and I quote directly: “I’ve given enough blowjobs to members of that family of guitarists that I should be named Dorien del Gastor.”
I kid you not, she said that.
Wow, thanks for that visual. Ooo la la:
https://gypsyflamenco.com/dorienross.html
 
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 21 2023 12:56:35
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