Compás help

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Compás help

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bahen

Posts: 378
Joined: Mar. 4 2006

Compás help

I've always struggled with compás and would be keen to receive some constructive advice on how to improve this aspect of playing. E.g., in the piece linked below, I can see and hear the palmas but struggle to replicate it as I don't know where the emphases are in the 12-beat rhythm. So, in addition to general advice, I'd love to learn how to count the 12-beat rhythm with the music:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2022 17:04:19

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

It's not easy is it! My tutor said to immerse myself in a particular palo, listen to loads of it, try counting along, or palmas, or whatever works. The remates can help with finding one's place in the compas. I'm starting to get better at it. I listen to a recording, look at the music and write the compas beats and accents under the staves, I've found that helpful. I'm studying Siguiryas at the moment and making a little progress.

I reckon it can be more difficult listening to solo guitar or cante accompaniment as the compas can get more elastic. It can be more useful to listen to baile accompaniment as it's more metronomic.

The more you do it, the more it makes sense. I fear I will never truly feel it though, I will be counting for a very long time! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2022 17:24:25

mecmachin

Posts: 171
Joined: Aug. 7 2010

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

Thats really cool playing. Yerai is like one with his music and his instrument. And the palmeros really push him to it.
I don't think you should count in 12es, when palmas are starting you better count in 6es like a slow bulerias. At least this is how I feel it.

mecmachin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2022 20:26:19

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

I'm with you on this, especially when it comes to modern falsetas. For example, I've been doing some Moraito bulerias falsetas and other traditional ones, with a bit of work no problem and I can play them with compass in the back, but the new stuff is hard. I've been cracking my head around one Soniquete falseta for the past week and can't get it. So I am very much interested in this thread too.

With this Soniquete falseta, I was trying to listen to it and slow it down to 75% or 50% and "map" all the accents in compass with playing, but could not really do it all the way. So now I am planning to work with the transcription book and metronome, without the compass in the back, and just get it as it is written in the notes. I don't know if that will do a better job for me, but it's just an idea.
I am also not sure whether to put metronome beats only on accents (like 1-2-3 1-2-3 - metronome sounds only on 1) or on every beat (1-2-3 1-2-3, metronome sounds on every beat). There was this video of a bass player showing rhythm, very good it's somewhere on the foro, which went from more beats to less beats, maybe that is the way to go here as well.

Anyway, once I got an advice to sing the falseta in compas first and then play it on a guitar. I've done it will all my previous bulerias falsetas and it was some work to do but it pays off, I think it's worth trying.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 11:57:36

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Compás help (in reply to Filip)

quote:

There was this video of a bass player showing rhythm, very good it's somewhere on the foro, which went from more beats to less beats, maybe that is the way to go here as well.

Victor Wooten, has been posted a few times. Reposted below.

This is about developing a solid internal clock. This is not specific to flamenco but to all music. Without a solid internal clock then accents, subdivisions, playing ahead/on/behind are all meaningless.

Also reposting the Scott's bass lessons "have you got bad timing?' video below.
And their online metronome that's useful for Victor Wooten type of exercises. You can set the metronome to only play certain beats of the bar. Or set the metronome to drop out for a certain number of bars and come back in again.

https://thegroovetrainer.scottsbasslessons.com/?utm_campaign=yt-lesson-181221&utm_medium=video&utm_source=yt-lesson&utm_content=ultimate-metronome-exercises&utm_term=groove-trainer

There are also links to an Android or iOS app in the description under the video on youtube.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 12:10:49

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 18 2022 12:27:32

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 12:21:16

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Compás help (in reply to orsonw)

Maybe put down the guitar and work just on developing your internal clock, rhythm base, compas and beat subdivision. You might find some of FlamencoMaps videos useful.

Here's a link to "rhythm, compas & palmas" playlist. If not sure where to start then maybe start with how rhythm works series.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvow4JGVC5ghCu1Rt7bHxXtLK3vZ1jdMP

e.g. Here he explains and gives exercises to understand rhythm base, compas and subdivision using palmas, voice, metronome.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 12:46:00

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Compás help (in reply to orsonw)

Here Jerez palmero Manuel Cantarote talks about embodying the bulerias compas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 13:04:16

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

That’s a challenging example! I’m not sure the palmeros knew where he was going either lol.

I think the fundamental importance is to get locked to the quarter note , just tapping your foot in straight time like a metronome, and forget about the accents. Watch the palmeros foot. that’s what he is doing. You can feel the groove. Then for the 12 beat cycle I think it helps to divide it in your head into a 2 halves. The first 6 beats , is like going out, and the second 6 beats is like coming home. That’s what’s in my head anyway! The important accents are the 3, and the 10

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 14:02:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=317280&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=jason%2Ccount&tmode=&smode=&s=#317368

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2022 16:38:10

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Compás help (in reply to bahen)

quote:

I can see and hear the palmas but struggle to replicate it

really? you can see and hear "un y dos y tres y " from 1:01 to 2:40, but you can't replicate that?

that fits with the rest of the video, even though they vary it a bit and speed up later.

just spend your 10,000 hours doing that palmas to this and any other buleria/jaleo video, and don't worry about the 12 beats, notation sheets or math lessons - then you will have a base to build anything else on.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2022 15:31:17