Cedar vs Spruce

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Cedar vs Spruce

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trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

Cedar vs Spruce

Hey Guys, what is your preferred material for the soundboard and why? Assuming all other materials are the same what would you choose for the soundboard and why?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2022 21:18:35

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

They're both good. It's a matter of what kind of sound the guitarist wants. While talking (or writing) about sound qualities is to me a bit like dancing about architecture, I would say that spruce gives a brighter more focused tone, whereas cedar gives a mellower kind of sound. But I'm a reticent curmudgeon and I'm pretty sure others will have more to say about it.

Since I play the flamenco guitar as well as build them, and spruce gives the kind of sound I usually prefer, that has been my preferred material.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2022 23:29:57

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

Spruce, is always my preferred choice.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2022 10:38:54

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Interesting, I have a spruce classical guitar that I converted for flamenco use and a cordoba f7 Paco. I hate how hollow the spruce one sounds compared to how full the Paco f7 sounds. Is a hollow sound typical of spruce top or does it really depend on how the guitar is made?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2022 13:45:40

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

I think cedar topped blancas are especially very nice. You get a little bit of a different color to them than the typical Spruce. They are a bit more "smokey" for lack of a better term. I also find them to be more rich in harmonics and slightly lower in attack than a spruce top.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2022 14:01:04

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

I think it depends on how the guitar is made. And the differences are subtle enough that a good maker may be able to overcome them.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2022 16:01:45

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

So would you guys say hammer on and legatos are louder or more pronounced on a spruce soundboard ? I’ve never tried a Blanca or a spruce top flamenco guitar as I just have the one, but I’m really curious to try one. I feel my legatos or hammer ons could be louder or project better. Is this a result of rosewood sides and cedar top or is it just my technique? The one thing I noticed with the cedar top is the slightly grainy yet silky texture like graphite on a convas in the guitar tone that microphones don’t really seem to pick up. Ii fell in love with that particular straight from day one. Though ive never tried a flamenca Blanca.

I guess what I’m really asking is what responds better to a light touch or which is more responsive? Cedar or Spruce?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2022 17:46:59

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

quote:

Hey Guys, what is your preferred material for the soundboard and why? Assuming all other materials are the same what would you choose for the soundboard and why?

https://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/infos/faq-about-guitars/about-guitars.html#c156

I want to hear the sound of Vicente's cedar top blanca. A link to youtube video would be awesome.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2022 15:50:34

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

quote:

So would you guys say hammer on and legatos are louder or more pronounced on a spruce soundboard ?

This calls to my mind how makers who don't know how to make a loud guitar are always looking for a gimmick, such as an open harmonic bar or a double top. Play a good hand-made guitar and you will see the huge difference between it and a factory made guitar, regardless of the woods used.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2022 16:04:18

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

Hey Guys, what is your preferred material for the soundboard and why? Assuming all other materials are the same what would you choose for the soundboard and why?

Cedar vs Spruce

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 1 2022 18:04:33

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I have both classicals and flamencos in both cedar and spruce. I like them all. The loudest classical is cedar. The "warmest" classical is spruce. The classical with the widest tonal variety is spruce.

Two of the flamencas are spruce: one is the loudest, the other is the "growliest." But of the three, a lot of people prefer the cedar one.

Each wood may tend to have its own character, but the way the instrument is built has the strongest influence on the result, in my opinion.

Paco de Lucia: Conde Hermanos, Manolo Sanlucar: Jose Ramirez III.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 1 2022 19:49:48

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I really like Granainas and I think cedar works really well for it. So why is it so hard to find a cedar blanca though?

Im just guitar shopping, trying to set myself a goal since I currently have the Cordoba F7 Paco, I really like it but can't help but wonder how a blanca would feel. Plus I feel like im somehow missing out on something since its a student guitar. At any rate not looking to buy something right away, but rather set a purchase goal when im done the Laga Flamenco program.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2022 22:39:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

If you like cedar, a guitar just like Manolo’s above for sale for 4.8kE. Listen to the video, it is a good deal IMO.:

https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/guitarras-jose-ramirez/guitarra-flamenca-jose-ramirez-1980-14594-2/

Here is spruce top, but a super deal:
https://www.danzeffguitars.com/productpages/flamenco-guitars-1971-Hermanos-Conde-Green-Label-Spain-559.cfm

And last, exactly what you want (cypress and spruce), but it is at normal price of 5K.

https://www.danzeffguitars.com/productpages/flamenco-guitars-1972-Jose-Ramirez-Flamenco-wpegs-Spain-520.cfm

If you are not willing to invest in those, nor a brand new luthier made guitar (I recommend Ethan make you one, his guitars are great), then keep what you have and save money.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 15:54:59

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to Ricardo)

interesting, what would Ethan charge? Im assuming this is Ethan Deutsch in Seattle. I noticed his flamenco guitars on the website have tuning pegs that are not inlayed in the headstock like a classical, why are these made this way?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 16:28:46

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

interesting, what would Ethan charge? Im assuming this is Ethan Deutsch in Seattle. I noticed his flamenco guitars on the website have tuning pegs that are not inlayed in the headstock like a classical, why are these made this way?

He already replied to you above. He is on this board.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 16:54:03

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 16 2022 17:38:46

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 17:37:37

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to tri7/5)

Ahh you are right, actually I found some of his pricing on his website.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 17:39:11

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

quote:

I really like Granainas and I think cedar works really well for it.

a cedar blanca for granainas? what about tarantas, maybe a cedar negra? and how about a spruce blanca for siguiriyas, a spruce negra for solea, a spruce maple for bulerias, a cedar maple for tangos.... where will it end?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 19:44:20

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to mark indigo)

Fair point, though wonder if owning both is such a bad idea.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 21:43:27

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to trivium91)

are U a troll?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 21:46:19

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

a cedar blanca for granainas? what about tarantas, maybe a cedar negra? and how about a spruce blanca for siguiriyas, a spruce negra for solea, a spruce maple for bulerias, a cedar maple for tangos.... where will it end?

Talk about all over the map: Blanca, Negra, Spruce, Cedar--all depending on which palo he is playing. Hey, here's an idea. Perhaps he should get a luthier to make him a guitar with papier-maché sides and back a la Antonio de Torres's 1862 experimental model with interchangeable soundboards of spruce and cedar that can be put in place or removed depending on the palo.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 22:55:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to BarkellWH)

Hey, we luthiers need customers with that take. My most recent customer was buying his 6th handmade guitar from me. The other five are from various makers. He "needs" two different guitars in each of the three rooms he plays in. I would encourage this.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2022 23:19:01

trivium91

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 24 2022

RE: Cedar vs Spruce (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

are U a troll?

Absolutely not, just someone who is passionate about flamenco and has an open mind. I would own 10 guitars if I could. Its not so far fetched to the point where I should be accused of being a troll. Think about it...

People buy:
-Multiple vehicles in the family for different purposes
-Multiple pairs of headphones for different genres
-Multiple tools for different jobs (does a mechanic use a Swiss army knife)

I simply proposed owning both a negra and blanca, not far fetched at all...open your mind a little before you judge.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 19 2022 17:14:06