RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco

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kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I still can’t get a number for the album sales...some say 2 million, paco says 5 or 6 million, and Al says over 7 million . I have doubts it reached 1 million because those are platinum certified albums and Friday night is not on any such list I have seen.

They are probably referring to world sales totals. Hard to verify them. The RIAA numbers (and metals/stones) are only for the US. With an album like FNISF it might be the case that a very large chunk of sales is from outside the US.

Here's an example of world vs. US sales table that seems to have been compiled with some care and lists methodology:
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Still, for those at the very top (120+ million worldwide), the US sales are almost always no.1; the only exception is ABBA.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2021 20:39:57

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Saturday night in Jerez

(¿Sin Al?)

Eso es.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2021 3:04:34

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

2022! This is so frustrating to hear! I say Ricardo should get Al on for an interview on his YouTube channel Lol. Then we can convince him to ditch this stupid audiophile record label and get all the material and video on a cds and dvds. Freakin LP BS... Al is right, FNISF album is not very good quality to begin with anyway. My rich brother-in-law has gotten into Paco and Shakti too. so I introduced him to the trio, and we were just listening to it on his $$$$$$ dollar audiophile system. The trio 3rd album sounds incredible though. But he’s in the minuscule minority that cares about hyper sound quality.

That’s interesting about the record sales. Maybe they are going by world wide sales then?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2021 16:08:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

Still, for those at the very top (120+ million worldwide), the US sales are almost always no.1; the only exception is ABBA.

Yes, this data gives a misleading impression because they refer to “units”, which is more often hit singles. Especially the modern artists with streaming a 99 cents song and they get platinum status for that. No comparison to Jackson thriller album for example in terms of what it means to have a successful album sales. Iron Maiden is super huge but with no radio hits they rarely get counted. I am sure they are close to 100 million albums globally but data points to 13 million only.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2021 14:28:28

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Yes, this data gives a misleading impression because they refer to “units”, which is more often hit singles.

Yeah, anything 'certified' means 'certified units' and a 'unit' now can mean an individual streamed song as audio or even as video. It is like the old-school bands have the number of crates of oranges counted up, but this number is now compared to counts of individual oranges or even counts of sightings of oranges (streaming a music video) for the new acts. Makes no sense.

Also there are lots of sales which are not 'certified' in that specific way even though the sales are just as real. And so in that list I linked, they say: "..Cliff Richard, Diana Ross, Scorpions, Bing Crosby, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Tom Jones, The Jackson 5, Dionne Warwick, the Spice Girls, Dolly Parton, Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath, Andrea Bocelli and others have not been included on this list. " Crazy.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 19 2021 19:00:07

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

Well, pre-order is now available for vinyl and CD. The SACD (super audio) has a bonus track called “Soniquete”….it sounds like they mean Paco’s solo piece, bulerias with Almoraima falsetas he had going at the time, but so is Pañuelo…but these guys are so confused after so much weed smoking etc we will have to wait and see what is actually on this thing!

. Trilogy Suite by Yngwie should be interesting! (That is a joke of course LOL) I find it odd they didn’t make it a double record and include the other material such as Manha de Carnival and Spain by Chick Corea. Perhaps with both Paco and chick gone now, Al found the royalty situation problematic? Spain is the one tune the trio never messed up live, so I was expecting this to be the definitive version. Oh well….at least it is something.

https://elusivedisc.com/saturday-night-in-san-francisco-hybrid-stereo-sacd/

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2022 13:29:01

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

Yeah what’s up wit dat? Kinda strange track list. What is Trilogy Suite? Maybe Soniquete is actually Spain!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2022 16:01:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Yeah what’s up wit dat? Kinda strange track list. What is Trilogy Suite? Maybe Soniquete is actually Spain!

Trilogy suite is Al Dimeola's noodling section (guitar solo...he plays a mix of Orient Blue and Cielo y Terra stuff). Honestly I am sure Yngwie stole this "suite" business from Al Di, not from Bach LOL. So it is not even ironic Al came up with a title for something Ynqwie was trying not to obviously rip off (Suite Golden Dawn, Elegant Gypsy Suite, Fantasia Suite...Icarus Dream suite, Trilogy Suite, etc).

Chick Corea is the one guy whose tunes Al would never mess up the title on.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2022 17:43:14

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

he plays a mix of Orient Blue and Cielo y Terra stuff). Honestly I am sure Yngwie stole this "suite" business from Al Di, not from Bach LOL.

So your saying that Al calls that number Trilogy in the spirit of ripping on Yngwie’s title/Opus thing, who ripped off Al in the 80’s?

I mean it’s totally plausible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2022 15:06:52

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to JasonM)

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2022 16:58:50

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

nice
one more month and it's out

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2022 22:37:59

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

The record drops today.

I found this interview. It appears someone (maybe they got my emails??

) figured out the speed issue (14:54), and Al also sort of admits the album is a Friday/Saturday of sorts (21:21).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2022 14:58:57

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
It appears someone (maybe they got my emails?? ) figured out the speed issue (14:54), and Al also sort of admits the album is a Friday/Saturday of sorts (21:21).

He is still so vague about it.. and gave the wrong reason - saying the first baking they got it too slow haha. No actually they got it right as it was and not the sped up version that showed up on the album. In any case, now both are presumably sped up equally matching the 1981 album?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2022 19:41:39

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

I can’t believe John doesn’t realize how popular the trio was! Heck, the pre order is #1 in Jazz on Amazon right now.

Would have preferred an uncut meeting of the spirits track or other tracks versus the solos though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2022 19:04:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

So now I am confused and frustrated as to why on Earth Europe and South America has been enjoying the album for the last 3 days (both in stores and streaming), but in USA we can’t even get it on Spotify??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2022 16:42:29

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

I can’t believe John doesn’t realize how popular the trio was!

Yeah, but I don't know how much stock to put into Al's stories. In that same interview he reiterates his telling (totally wrong(*)) of how Paco only managed to do the Mediterranean Sundance take when he got high. At this point he's been doing these embellishments for so long I think he doesn't remember what the actual story was and just remembers his previous telling of it. It is deeply irritating, though, as now yet another how many hundreds of thousands of listeners to this audiophile guy's channel think Paco could only play when high.

I agree about the solos thing versus twos and trio tracks.

(*) http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=340083&s=#340092

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2022 17:46:15

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

So now I am confused and frustrated as to why on Earth Europe and South America has been enjoying the album for the last 3 days (both in stores and streaming), but in USA we can’t even get it on Spotify??

Here in Canada amazon and others are saying the album (CD versions) will drop Aug 19. WTF. The vinyl versions are Jul 19 for some reason.

I see you are on the case of the "insolen_t" guy who just uploaded audio from the video available on YouTube from Saturday night and slapped the new album cover on it

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2022 17:48:31

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

Amazon in the US also says August release.

Ugh man! That Insolen_t got my naive @ss! At first, My BS alarm sounded but then wishful thinking got me, and Ricardo set me straight lol! The ironic thing is, like you were saying about Al’s Paco story, should I believe that even Al got the album tracks right? Probably should give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean he is the artist! But then again, it’s Al…

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 5 2022 15:32:01

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

So now I am confused and frustrated as to why on Earth Europe and South America has been enjoying the album for the last 3 days (both in stores and streaming), but in USA we can’t even get it on Spotify??

It is absolutely crazy given the reality of the internet.... no doubt someone will rip it and post it on YT before you even get a chance to pay for it.

I ordered a second hand copy of the CD this morning!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 5 2022 20:26:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

OK, got my vinyl copy in the mail tonight while I was on the gig, so I spent all night studying this thing. Here is the scoop…good news and bad news.

First good news, The package is really nice with a booklet that has interviews photos and stories…some stuff we already know and some new insights. I will let other people read that thing on their own but three points.

1. They admit that fans are aware that the YouTube video shows Saturday night, and are sort of claiming this disc is simply the enhanced audio of that show (from Tim Pinch’s mobile truck). As a high end audio label that is a minor issue for them, the idea being the special mastering process etc is what we have purchased as “audiophiles” one and all. No matter that we should already be familiar with all the music on here.
2. Al says they added Guardian Angels to Friday night disc so McLaughlin had composer credit, but “poor paco” had not composed any music on Friday Night. If you don’t understand why that is an infuriating statement, lets just say Paco DID compose music on there. Totally get why there was a fight later on regarding that track. Al still performs Rio Ancho live and must think himself the composer of it, even though it was recorded a year before the two even met! Not to mention Entre dos Aguas is the bulk of med sun.
3. There are photos of the tape reel covers and it seems some were damaged or not clearly labeled. Also it seems that some of these tapes were baked back in 1994 at Power Station…which is very curious. Also, Pinch reveals that he was running two tape reels in order to over lap as he ran out of tape during a song…while he was eating burgers in his truck, admitting they could be “spliced together” later….that could very well be part of the confusion going on between the nights. Perhaps the splicing of Med Sun was unintentional back in the day, a result of mislabeled tape reels? Or an attempt to fix an overlap error or tricky spot that occurred on Friday? So now on to the actual recording…

I went over this record several times with a fine tooth comb. As I already knew Splendido Sundance is a different night than the video version, and it is great playing IMO. Very exciting.

Now, the bad news….

Everything else is from the video concert in terms of what was being performed. Yes, that is right…we already have seen and heard this music. However, everything except for Tres Hermanos and Paco’s solo has been heavily edited. They call that one El Pañuelo so Paco’s family can get the royalty….the tune was co-written by McLaughlin for a trio gig with Carlos Santana, but perhaps Al finally wanted to give Paco some credit ironically. Most Paco fans know it as Chanela. Sometimes a lot of editing was used, and very carefully. McLaughlin’ a solo piece I thought was different at first until I noticed some detail…then I checked the video and sure enough it is all hacked up. Al’s solo is the most obvious pull from the video, however it is also cut down in spots. Obviously the video is not mixed (guitars remain flat, and Al’s guitar is missing from the spectrum on the trio pieces), so the sound is much improved in that sense. And the edit job on Meeting of the spirits fixes all the mistakes and makes it very enjoyable, perhaps the best piece on the record. Normally that one is kind of boring on video, but this edit job cleans up the rough spots and makes it pretty exciting sounding. If anyone knows the video version the ending was really bad, and the way they fixed it without actually re-recording anything was brilliant honestly.

I assume the bonus track on the SACD is going to be the buleria paco plays in the video (mostly La Tumbona).

So we are left wondering whether Splendido is actually from Friday like Frevo and Fantasia etc. Or perhaps it was a different venue (Tim Pinch admitted to taking that truck to Reseda and Santa Monica as well)? We may never know.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2022 6:43:30

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

Great Review, and thanks for the write up! Ricardo should really be the guy interviewing Al for this disc.

That is disappointing about it being the same performance on YouTube, and the whole Royalty thing. At least we are getting a quality audio recording.

Just received an email from Elusive Disc saying there is a delay in receiving the SACD, but should go out soon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2022 19:07:08

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

OK, got my vinyl copy in the mail tonight while I was on the gig, so I spent all night studying this thing.

Thank you for the detailed review! On the subject of pitch - is the new recording sped up to match the Friday night pressing, or is it at A=440 matching the pitch of the video? Curious to see what they ended up doing after all the hand-wringing that the ambience does not match between the two evenings (because of the different speeds as you pointed out)

BTW for some reason Splendido Sundance fired me up to figure out the opening riff till the G major chord (for now), and that segment has been stuck on my head on a continuous loop 24/7 for two days

. Very smart and tricky syncopation, love that riff.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2022 18:17:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

On the subject of pitch - is the new recording sped up to match the Friday night pressing

It might be. I am still waiting to hear a digital version to be sure because my record player actually plays fast already so it is not the ideal way to judge it (on vinyl) however I do have the Friday night vinyl so based on that, no it is 1/4 pitch lower than Friday Night. (In other words, my record player running fast makes Mediterranean Sundance sound in F minor, and Splendido is a little flat from that). In terms of sound differences, Mclaughlin’s guitar is much more present on Saturday and also Al’s guitar has more direct line quack.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2022 14:47:10

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

however I do have the Friday night vinyl so based on that, no it is 1/4 pitch lower than Friday Night. (In other words, my record player running fast makes Mediterranean Sundance sound in F minor, and Splendido is a little flat from that)

Heh, so after all that they didn't do anything to match it, so probably fair to say they didn't read your emails or the foro threads here

Skywalker studios bla bla..

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2022 18:27:40

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

I assume the bonus track on the SACD is going to be the buleria paco plays in the video (mostly La Tumbona).

I was hoping for that too since on the video Paco played it rather well and I don't see a reason not to include it anyway, but unfortunately it's not the case I guess. On Spotify, the last (8th) track is called Orpheo Negro, it is a live version of what is familiar to me as Manha de Carnaval.

Also on Spotify, Monasterio de Sal is a bit strange since most of the audio is coming from left channel.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2022 19:28:10

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

Just got the CD, no Paco's bulerias solo or Spain.

quote:

The package is really nice with a booklet that has interviews photos and stories

The CD booklet includes only a story about the trio and the two concerts (with "poor Paco" part grrr), and one photo of the trio sitting casually without guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2022 13:01:35

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Filip)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filip

Just got the CD, no Paco's bulerias solo or Spain.

quote:

The package is really nice with a booklet that has interviews photos and stories

The CD booklet includes only a story about the trio and the two concerts (with "poor Paco" part grrr), and one photo of the trio sitting casually without guitars.

The bonus track is supposedly on the SACD (super audio CD) version. Jason said he is waiting for his copy, so we will have to see what the hell is on it. Black Orpheus would have been nice, but it wouldn’t fit on the vinyl disc.

So, the team of producers of this product are a bit “deer in headlights” from my point of view. So I guess we can be thankful for whatever we got.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2022 15:43:30

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

The bonus track is supposedly on the SACD (super audio CD) version. Jason said he is waiting for his copy, so we will have to see what the hell is on it. Black Orpheus would have been nice, but it wouldn’t fit on the vinyl disc.

Ah, so it's a SACD thing...let's wait and see :)
Thanks for the vid btw.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2022 17:55:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to kitarist)

This guy had the same idea I had…he attached the new cleaned up audio to the video. Too bad the video is so low quality by comparison:

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 24 2022 16:33:25

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Saturday Night in San Francisco (in reply to Ricardo)

Finally got the SACD today. Soniquete….is…. OMG…just his other solo as expected.

The audio quality is really really good. I have a high resolution external DAC but I don’t even know if the 192k or whatever is enabled. Don’t really care it sounds good enough. Almost never listen to my home stereo anymore. But I’m enjoying this!

This is definitely a disappointment though - waiting years for this. Could have been a two disc set! Having such great audio of this show available, with all the work, and leaving out so much, due to the whole Royalty thing. :/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 25 2022 21:52:32