Conde 2012 Real or Fake

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flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

Conde 2012 Real or Fake

Hello friends,

I’m in Canada and new on this forum.

2 years ago I purchased a Conde guitar from Facebook,
It seems the vendor was OK, good reputation.
The guitar sounds very good, I'm happy with it.

I just want to know if it is a real Conde or a fake.

The guitar was shipped to me from Majorca.

I uploaded some photos of the guitar.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 18:27:39

flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 8 2022 18:31:44

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 18:30:21

flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to flce)

more pics

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 18:32:47

flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to flce)

last ones

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 18:36:11

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to flce)

Looks to be a genuine 2012 Gravina 7 Conde. But depends what you mean by 'fake' and how much you paid for it? If more than €1800- €2000 then that is too much.

At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders and nothing to do with Gravina 7 from the Hermanos Conde days. These guitars are not of the quality or value of earlier pre-1990's Gravina 7. Or Felipe V, or Atocha from the same period.

For example this 2011 Gravina negra linked below sold recently for €1800. You can read more in the description about Gravina guitars from that time period.
https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/hermanos-conde-guitars/flamenco-guitar-hermanos-conde-2011-ex-juanito-makande/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 20:57:17

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders

I remember asking her about this, since she had a shop full of guitars. She said that she continued to use the same people who made guitars for Faustino. Conde had a workshop in Pozuelo which turned out all the student guitars. I think that Valencia came later.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2022 23:54:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders

I remember asking her about this, since she had a shop full of guitars. She said that she continued to use the same people who made guitars for Faustino. Conde had a workshop in Pozuelo which turned out all the student guitars. I think that Valencia came later.

The thick fingerboard and rosette are characteristic of Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 2F I have seen years ago (now around $2,200, but $1500 back in 2005). He has some weird thing on the tie block covering the tie block design which I also suspect is of Sanchis make. As discussed a gazillion times, all Condes are out sourced, so if the label is real (this one is real, Gravina style for its time) then the guitar can still carry its value. The price of E1,800 was probably more like E1,500 back then, and ONLY for professional artists (don’t know Makande but must be related to the famous singer of fandango?). The general public would sometimes get charged close to $5,000!! (Tourist prices). We know this from Gerardo who used to buy guitars for students or friends so they would get ripped off. Keep in mind, the house was probably paying Sanchis or whoever these prices, so not much profit from selling to pro artists. This Makande guy would be making E300 or less (not sure what the outlet keeps) over what he paid for the thing. But that is a steal vs what the normal market value was for a “media Luna” as it is called.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2022 11:53:29

Stu

Posts: 2528
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Ricardo)

yeah what is that little weird insert under the strings there?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2022 12:26:35

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Stu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

yeah what is that little weird insert under the strings there?

Thats a KNA Pickup NG-1

https://www.knapickups.com/en/guitar/uke/ng-1-pickup-kna

There is also NG2 which has volume control

It is actually pretty "natural" sounding for a piezo (and the price which is around 50 bucks)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2022 12:38:18

Stu

Posts: 2528
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Arash)

Cool.Cheers Ar ash. Ive never seen one of those before

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2022 22:46:39

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to flce)

+ 1 for authentic V. Sanchis - Gravina Conde.
Not a fan of those guitars.
Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2022 16:05:49

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

But that is a steal vs what the normal market value was for a “media Luna” as it is called.

€1800 is only a steal compared to other sellers over estimating the value and finding naive buyers who don't know the difference.
For example on ebay now you can find these overpriced guitars:
Unsigned 1986 Atocha green label student model for $5K.
Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4K

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2022 17:03:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

Unsigned 1986 Atocha green label student model for $5K.
Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4K

In all honesty, as I said earlier, the 2F went up from $1500 to $2500, so those models went up equivalently as well (extra inflated by individual sellers vs outlets that know better). Guitar dealer outlets know the signed media Lunas were going at $5k. Gas is now $5.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2022 19:10:35

flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to flce)

Thank you everyone for the feed back. I appreciate it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2022 19:17:24

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

In all honesty, as I said earlier, the 2F went up from $1500 to $2500, so those models went up equivalently as well (extra inflated by individual sellers vs outlets that know better). Guitar dealer outlets know the signed media Lunas were going at $5k. Gas is now $5.

Maybe US prices are higher with tax/shipping and scarcity?
But today in Europe even at a dealer; Solera you can buy a 2006 Felipe V for $5K, or a 1989 Felipe V $5.6K, or 1993 Sanchis 1F for $1.9K. Or from Mundo flamenco a 2001 Felipe V negra $4.2K. Or from David guitars a 2001 Felipe V $4.2k. etc...

If you want a good Gravina 7 from 50s,60s,70s,80s yes then that could be around $5K but can go up to $12k. Buying from a private seller can be $1K or $2K less than from a dealer.
Paying $5k for a student model makes no sense.

Sanchis stopped making 2F some years ago, 2015 I think. They changed the line up. Now their lower model is called 'Solea'. It's construction is equivalent to the old 1F cost $1.9K.

We are fortunate that flamenco guitars haven't gone up anything like electric guitars. I guess a 1980s Reyes is one of the most collectable and cost around $15-20K? Compare that to a 1959 Les Paul, which can get up to $500K or Peter Green's Les Paul $2million.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2022 20:41:24

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.

Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2022 11:33:12

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

Maybe US prices are higher with tax/shipping and scarcity?
But today in Europe even at a dealer; Solera you can buy a 2006 Felipe V for $5K, or a 1989 Felipe V $5.6K, or 1993 Sanchis 1F for $1.9K. Or from Mundo flamenco a 2001 Felipe V negra $4.2K. Or from David guitars a 2001 Felipe V $4.2k. etc...

If you want a good Gravina 7 from 50s,60s,70s,80s yes then that could be around $5K but can go up to $12k. Buying from a private seller can be $1K or $2K less than from a dealer.
Paying $5k for a student model makes no sense.

Sanchis stopped making 2F some years ago, 2015 I think. They changed the line up. Now their lower model is called 'Solea'. It's construction is equivalent to the old 1F cost $1.9K.

Seem to remember reading somewhere here that Felipe V 2001 or 2003 years were kind of lemon guitars???

Sanchis 2F model was outsourced and made to their specs, 1F was not. So maybe the Solea is now made in house as well. Just a guess

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2022 14:50:33

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4

Funny. I have one, now hanging on the wall of the Peña de Irlanda del Norte. It cost me 15,000 pesetas in Gravina. After I had refused 5 Pozuelos for faults, Faustino offered me a Media Luna, signed by himself, for 35,000 pesetas. Sadly, these were the days of travellers cheques and long queues to change. I had money in the bank, but could not take it out in Spain, so I lost a real 1978 Faustino

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2022 15:52:31

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.

Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?

In the photos of the bridge, very little bone is poking above the bridge wood…meaning it can’t be lowered. However, the bridge wood looks pretty flat as if someone already sanded it down to get the bone saddle even lower. I suspect this could be continued until the break angle reaches zero, at which point the guitar needs new string holes drilled.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2022 12:23:03

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.

Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?

In the photos of the bridge, very little bone is poking above the bridge wood…meaning it can’t be lowered. However, the bridge wood looks pretty flat as if someone already sanded it down to get the bone saddle even lower. I suspect this could be continued until the break angle reaches zero, at which point the guitar needs new string holes drilled.

makes sense. thanks for reply

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2022 12:10:38

flce

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun. 7 2022

RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (in reply to Arash)

I have purposely sanded the saddle to lower the action, in combination with HT strings it sounds the way I like it, to revert it, if I want to I could replace the saddle with a new higher one or raise the action by shimming the bridge saddle with aluminum paper

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2022 15:10:29