Advice needed for beginner guitarist

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alneola

Posts: 4
Joined: Jan. 8 2022

Advice needed for beginner guitarist

Hello Everybody!

New user here.

I used to play some rock/metal in high school (in a band) and then didnt pick up a guitar again till this year in my early 30s.

Loooong story short I'm currently learning to play heavy metal guitar (rhythm and lead) from a structured set of books and courses that will take me most of this year to get through.

AFTER that (practice time is limited, can't serve two masters, cant afford another guitar right now) however I also want to learn Flamenco, to which end I will eventually start and follow from the paid material at the "Flamenco Explained" website.

I signed up to the forum so that in the meantime I could discover more flamenco music, and to ask the following questions:

1) I play electric guitar exclusively with a pick. I have deliberately never learned to finger pick due to my musical preferences. So I have no bad habits to unlearn. My question was, is there a specific style of finger picking I should learn for learning the acoustic clean passages in heavy metal music? This will be my only contact with finger picking while playing my electric. Can anyone point me to any dos/don't s so I don't develop bad right hand habits that I have to unlearn later when learning flamenco guitar? Particular fingers to use? Perhaps any online resources that teach the minimum I need to know for now?

2) I play only in the classical position (right shoulder injury) is a classical position an absolute deal-breaker for switching to/learning flamenco later? If its not really a big deal I would prefer to continue playing this way.

Thank you anyone who takes the time to reply!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 6:09:13

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

basically -- if you're learning to play for fun, nothing's a big deal. use whatever seating position is comfortable.

as for fingerpicking habits, google "rest stroke vs free stroke", learn about PIMA and which strings each finger is responsible for, and keep your thumb on the outside when plucking.

don't get too hung up on technique. there are plenty of people that sound good with bad technique, and vice versa. just don't get too tense and hurt yourself.

have fun with the heavy metal books -- i remember playing through a bunch of arlen roth stuff back in the day lol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 7:05:30

alneola

Posts: 4
Joined: Jan. 8 2022

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

@Chester - Thank you for the prompt and useful reply. Just a few further questions

1) If you or anyone else seeing this can think of any method books/DVDs for flamenco that are generally considered good, please recommend those also.

2) Googled what you recommended - found a beginner book "fingerpicking in 8 weeks" that goes into PIMA and PAMI and has basic exercises using each in my library.

Unclear about rest and free stroke and what I should be doing in the meantime. Pls advise :P :)

Thank you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 10:53:50

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

quote:

1)If you or anyone else seeing this can think of any method books/DVDs for flamenco that are generally considered good, please recommend those also.

Gerhard Graf-Martinez has method videos on flamenco technique. Oscar Herrero has a series of instructional videos entitled “Paso a Paso.”

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 12:28:08

ric

Posts: 84
Joined: Dec. 27 2010

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

Yeah i don't know, books are good, but... 1) use your ears, learn to identify what flamenco you like or don't like (pre paco, post paco, jazzy, or check out "flametal" ). Learn to identify what palo you like don't like (solea, alegrias). Learn to identify what guitarists you like or don't like.
Let your ears push you in the direction they want to go. There is a ton of stuff on YT, but you have to take time and weed out what you like as far as technique. Find a local teacher if possible.
Good luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 14:40:37

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

quote:

Can anyone point me to any dos/don't s so I don't develop bad right hand habits that I have to unlearn later when learning flamenco guitar? Particular fingers to use? Perhaps any online resources that teach the minimum I need to know for now?

If you were to start practicing PAMI / Flamemco arpeggios, I think a good habit to get into right away is anchoring the thumb. Helps with hand stability. It’s not something that is intuitive when first learning arpeggios because it feels a little unnatural at first.

For example, Adam del Monte is anchoring the thumb in this tutorial:
https://youtu.be/3KK0AmXUAQ0

But here, Ben Woods is not. His thumb hangs in the air after a plucked note.
https://youtu.be/pRq2oiXKTRY

Ben Woods is a great player and comes from a metal background. His technique is more unorthodox but it works for him and that’s really what matters. Check out his music!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 16:19:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

I think just like you probably know picking technique is important but there are many ways to do it (Paul Gilbert vs Vinnie Moore vs Marty Friedman etc), you might see some of the same stuff going on with flamenco guitar. I am an advocate for Paul Gilbert techniques over all others…his looks like the “right way”. Sadly I encountered his method late in the game as a kid, and had already developed “elbow picking syndrome” which gave me problems I had to work around. So if you care at all about that stuff, then I recommend you get on track correctly with flamenco for the same reasons. Paco de Lucia is like the “Paul Gilbert” equivalent of techniques you should copy. He follows a school of Nino Ricardo along with other great players such as Manolo Sanlucar. Ragueados are the first priority like learning to play with a drummer those Metallica tunes the first time and you realize how to do down picking and be tight with the drums. I recommend mastering one main one: index up, ring down, middle down, index down. It should sound like a triplet that lands on the next beat. I am not sure why many people outside of Spain don’t learn this as it sets you up to master continuous rolls and other important techniques.

The other thing to get early is the anchor of the thumb as Jason mentioned. Actually it is about learning to play with apoyando or rest stroke with the thumb. Getting that early will save you headache along the way as you get into arpegios and other techniques. Last is the index middle picado used for fast scale runs. Here you can actually apply those Paul Gilbert licks that get you between strings using patterns, but think of index as a down pick and middle finger as the up pick stroke and you see how patterns work.

As mentioned Ben Woods has an unorthodox technque, but as a musician he is very advanced and astute. I recommend checking out his arrangements of metal classics for solo guitar, since you should be already familiar with the original tunes.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2022 18:14:14

alneola

Posts: 4
Joined: Jan. 8 2022

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

Thanks everyone, that's exactly what I was looking for!

While I won't be able to do any flamenco-specific stuff for a while, this is exactly what I needed to know, so now I know players and elements of technique to look for and use even when fingerpicking folk/rock songs for now.

The vast majority of my time goes to studying and playing metal since MY goal there is a VERY high skill level that will still take me upwards of 9 months or so to get to, but knowing what to keep in mind to ease the "transition" is great, thank you!

I must say, I'm impressed by the speed and usefulness of the answers, not always guaranteed in forums online....Guess I've lucked out and come to the right place! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2022 5:37:23

alneola

Posts: 4
Joined: Jan. 8 2022

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

quote:

I recommend checking out his arrangements of metal classics for solo guitar, since you should be already familiar with the original tunes.

THIS, plus flametal as another poster recommended (I understand might be horrible to flamenco purists) are especially great recommendations, it's nice to be able to connect technique and sound from what I "know" to what I don't. Many thanks!

EDIT: Just realised its the same guy! so if there are any other people doing something similar, classical or rock music interpreted through flamenco, pls post also!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2022 5:40:36

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Advice needed for beginner guitarist (in reply to alneola)

Pumping nylon is a great book for technique.
It is not a flamenco method but will give you a better technique.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2022 3:47:56