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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to Florian)
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quote:
Every flamenco movie depics a gitano with a knife and thats ok but if i talk about it i am stereotyping, that is the reason there is racial stereotyping problems in the world
Exactly Florian,
This is nothing new though.
The "inner" group has always made the law and placed the "outer" group on the margins.
Been going on since cave man times...
We try to "work around" it in our own countries and our own lifetimes.
This group is about the love, sound and appreciation of Flamenco music.
This seems to be a quite universal thing, encompassing folk from Australia, USA, UK, Syria, Canada, Germany, France, Singapore, Holland, Kuwait, Costa Rica, Portugal, Mexico, Sweden, Finland...etc
We all have different Politics in each of our respective countries and very marked cultural differences.
The beauty of this forum is that we can all talk the same language when it comes to talking about the intricacies of Flamenco guitar.
Because basically we all feel the same way.
Scotland may seem like a place to some of folk running around in kilts and eating Haggis and brewing whisky and singing jolly Scottish songs.
But it's not.
We are a modern society full of all the good stuff and bad stuff of modern life.
People get knifed here as well... a lot of young folk are hooked on hard drugs just like everywhere else in the world.
Does that put me off Scotland?
Nah!...Best place in the world to live IMO.. (despite the weather) 
cheers
Ron
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Date Mar. 24 2006 22:01:07
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to Ron.M)
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Koella 
Ron.
I understand that this place is not about that, and is no point discussing it here because it wont solve anything, but our talk about flamenco movies " Vengo" in peticular brought us to that subject, i didnt just bring that subject up out of the blue and for no reason since the movie we were talking about was about that subject i just spoke openly about it , mibe too opely. I grew up next door to Gipsyes in Romania, some of my best friends were Gipsyes, i would be the last person in the world to wanna discriminate against the hole race, i was speaking of isolated incidents, not like the Morrocans, now thats a different story
Flamenco talks about all parts of life, and thats all i was doing, i didnt think it was such a big deal, speaking frankly and openly without beeing discriminative (only to the poeple doing the acctual stabbig ) or worring about beeing too politicaly correct, all members here are mature intelligent people, i didnt think i had to sugarcoat it for anyone .
Life is fully of unplensentness and since Flamenco talks about all parts of life, we should be able to handle a discussion about all parts of life like the mature intelligent indivuduals that we are without allways running scared and hiding behind the "Polloticaly correct bord".
quote:
This group is about the love, sound and appreciation of Flamenco music
If u love flamenco then u know that flamenco talks about everyday life, u cant talk about flamenco and not talk about life. Unfortunately the subjects are not always easy and pleasant but nevertheless is life.
The problem is not what we talk about but the manner we chose to do it in.
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Date Mar. 24 2006 22:48:54
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henrym3483
Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland
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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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quote:
physical conflict solves little, and should only be used as a very last resort. I'm sure if "threatened" with a weapon there are quite a few alternatives to choose from.
after a long period of time (now 8yrs) of practicing martial arts i would admit yes quite a few and the best being to leg it, but if cornered in a bar i would pick up the nearest thing whether it be a glass bottle, chair or umbrella in order to defend myself, by the law you can strike pre-emptively if a weapon appears.
i have done this on a guy with a baseball bat (road rage incident, guy pulled it from his trunk) and if i had'nt acted pre-meptively, i surely would have ended up with a broken arm or a cracked skull, or dead.
if the guy was a gentleman, there would be no need to talk of knives, fists or guns for that matter,thats in an ideal world, but then again if you appear weak, they will take advantage of it.
like all human behavious there is a ritual to starting a fight, head pecking, raised voice, dropping in to mono syllables like "yeah" "c'mon" etc, foul language, closing the distance so the attacker can reach you, clenching of fists, squaring up, the list goes on.
for those who have never been in a fight, they may never recognise these signs and then get walloped, and beat to the ground and wonder how the hell did it happen, well if you knew the signs you would see it coming.
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Date Mar. 24 2006 23:49:34
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to Florian)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Florian
Note to self.. Do not wistle the Romanian national anthem anymore when mugging the Spanish in Granada, the are very smart people and they will identiffye our country of origin very very quic.
Must be the damn national pride that compels us to yell out at the end of every mugging :
"- U have been mugged by a Romanian !!! OLE NADIA COMANICI OLE DRACULA !! Good BYE !!
the only think that ****ed me off is that theres all this romanians pulling out knifes in granada, yet we never ever get any recongnition in to Saura's flamenco movies, its always the gypsies that get all the credit.
je je je but seriously Florian I didnt mean to cause offense to you or your race, just point out that stereoytping Gypsy people is unfair, untrue and causes discrimination. And of course I am aware of major problems in the more marginalised communities, I worked in one for years.
The Rumanian gangs, and I am talking about criminals here not Rumanians in general, 'working' in my neighbourhood are easily identified. Over the past year the neighbours have escorted endless victims to the police station (particularly young Asian women) as from our balconies we tend to hear the muggings, and can also recognise the attackers. It's pretty easy as many are multiple offenders and the police have extensive photo albums to identify them.
Kate.
(Neighbourhood watch)
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Date Mar. 25 2006 10:19:48
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henrym3483
Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland
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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to El Becko)
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jbashorun,
quote:
Its best to avoid physical combat completely where possible. If its an option, it would be better to sweet-talk the person into putting away his weapon. even if that means putting your pride on the shelf.
agreed, disuasion is always a good option but if the person intends to do it, and i mean to say if you do not do something before the person tries to stick it in you, you will get hurt.
funnily enough though i read a story in the new york times 2yrs ago about a woman in the bronx who nearly killed a guy who was threatening her 12 yr old child with a flick knife, no martial arts and she did it with her bare hands, as i recall she nearly tore the guys cheek muscle off,  and she did'nt get hurt, goes to show you hell hath known no fury like a womans anger 
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Date Mar. 25 2006 13:31:08
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (in reply to Kate)
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Kate, thats cool, if u say so i belive you i am just in denial about it, dont really know what to say about it, but that is just my point we should be able to just talk like civilised people about it, without having to make such a big racial conflict of it when its not really.
A criminal is a criminal no matter where he was born, stereotyping against Romanian criminals is not stereotyping against Romanians, just Romanian criminals.
All i can say, is i hope they atlist add a litlle bit of class to the muggings and offer to leave you enough money for the busticket or after the mugging has ended they step out of the "Mugger" role and tone and in plain normal voice say
" :-U did really good, i wasent really gonna hurt you, its just my mugging line, u know is so hard to find good scary lines this days, Now are you ok ? do you need to talk ? I also play gypsy violin for parties if u ever need anyone, heres my card"
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Date Mar. 26 2006 2:34:19
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Or when they do palmas and dance buleria on this road in the middle of nowhere...