RE: Ebony dust

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RE: Ebony dust

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ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

Sounds great,
That oddball you found to play is pretty darn good too, not bad for only being a bass player ;) Wish I could play like that, all the percussive details are cool. Going to play this through my stereo later to get a better feel.

Seriously, when is your solo guitar album coming out?

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2021 23:01:04

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

I noticed that I was getting ebony dust into the soundboard just on either side of the fingerboard, so I started putting low-tack masking tape there, just an inch wide, and that solved the problem. Before applying the tape, I stick it to my shirt and peel it off to make sure it is very low tack.

I finish sand the area of the soundboard from the middle of the soundhole up before gluing on the fingerboard.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 3:44:46

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

quote:

Rob, what’s your take on using Naphtha as a sanding lube?

Please allow me to tell you my take on it. I once wiped down a guitar with naptha to see if I could find any sanding scratches before finishing. It apparently got absorbed into pores in the Spanish cedar neck, and after the customer received the guitar it caused the French polish finish to bubble. So I consider it very dangerous to use naptha on an unfinished guitar. For sanding lubricant when sanding the finish with very fine sand paper, I use the same oil that I use for French polishing, which happens to be counterfeit olive oil in my case.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 3:51:45

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

How does it compare to your first one?

Well, it sounds more controlled to me. More elegant in a way. The other one is more wild and dirty but feels also good :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 9:23:25

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

quote:

Seriously, when is your solo guitar album coming out?

Thank you :-)

Currently, beside Azuleo I have another project with our syrian violin player. Just guitar and violin... I will tell you when it's finished. I also record solo stuff from time to time, but I find it really hard to finish things if there are no other people involved... do you know this phenomenon?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 9:27:31

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

Honest opinion (otherwise there's no use, do you agree?).
Clearly you are talented.
There is something very attractive at the beginning of your piece and here and there in the melodic line: I liked the alternation of soft tones and the choice of the scales sweeping down. I found other rhythmical things, more conventional, but anyway I liked the whole thing.
Your guitar making skills are also extremely good.
Your guitar is new and it sounds to my ears good but a little overbuilt? Or maybe it's just it has still to open up to his full potential, I don't know.
Anyway it's very good.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 16:50:18

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

Please allow me to tell you my take on it...

Hi Ethan, I don’t know if you were intending to correct or add to the earlier discussion, but the context of the conversation to which you are referring was about sanding or wiping down the finish of a guitar while French Polishing. In that case, as an alternative to spiriting with alcohol, naphtha can be used to wipe off the oil that can accumulate on the surface overnight after the polish has had time to gas off a bit. Some people don’t use oil when bodying, or very little oil, so this may not apply to them.

I haven’t experienced any problems from using naphtha to wipe down a guitar while it is in the white, mainly because I don’t tend to do that, but even if I did, I’m a little sceptical about the conclusion drawn about it from the experience of one instrument having had a problem. Could it be possible a particularly resinous piece of Cedro had been used? That can sweat out for some time after cutting. Regardless, naphtha is very toxic so it’s probably not a bad idea to avoid handling the stuff whenever possible. It is a good cleaner, though, so I think it has its place.

I have run into difficulty when using oil as a sanding lube on the finished surface of a top and have inadvertently sanded through. The bare spot was a bugger to recover, as the shellac just didn’t seem to want to take in that area. I can’t remember if I stripped the top and started over, or managed to clear the area with alcohol, but it was a bugger. I probably did it both ways at one time or another because, as with many of my mistakes, I tend to make them more than once. Except joining this forum, I’ve only ever joined an Internet forum once. But, that’s why I avoid using oil as a sanding lube while French Polishing and prefer to use water or to stay dry. I’ve been using the Assilex stuff dry, as I don’t know how it would respond to oil or water. I suspect it wouldn’t like either.

I guess what I’m trying to say is to each their own. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is that good guitars are being created. Hopefully, most people are capable of respecting that there is more than one way to achieve a solid, high quality result. Sometimes I wonder, however, as the constant veiled sniping by a couple of members here can get to be a little bit tiresome. It’s bullsh*t, imo, just like half the garbage about the craft that’s sometimes posted, generally by non-makers, but at times by people who really should know better.

And Jonas, I really like the video. The guitar and playing are both wonderful and I’m looking forward to hearing more. Please keep us posted on your project with the violinist.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2021 23:04:08

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

My take is that there are 2 schools: the proper old school of french polishing requires a siccative oil on the bare wood (there are different kind of linen oils for the purpose).
The more comprehensive Manual I have read (the A. Turco) and some booklets of the Cremona violin making school, point this out quite clearly.
This is supposedly meant to give a certain depth to the finish.
I am originally from Venice and found very interesting old recipes with different gums and resins coming from the old routes of India.
Thing is that the traditional French polish requires much more use of oil and a different way to make it shining in the last stage.
In the last stage (the proper polishing stage) the only ingredients are oil and alcohol and occasionally tripoli powder. No water or sandpaper here.

The second school of thinking - born in England due to the wet weather - tends to isolate the wood (in different ways, but almost always with very diluted hhg) and to create a solid foundation for the following shellac layers. Somehow the washing with egg is after the same idea.

The recent way to do it ( bodying up with no oil and final use of polishing paste) is probably more effective for a flat and shining surface but far from tradition and less ‘organic’. In my opinion a proper old school french polish is more pleasant at the touch and gives to the thing a distinctive artisanal touch.
Probably a flat shining surface is more Instagram and Guitarsalon friendly but it’s less fascinating to my eyes
I heard of people using acetone instead of spirit.
Here sandpaper is used commonly and a water soap solution or water or turpentine are the main options I heard about.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2021 11:35:56

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to Echi)

quote:

The second school of thinking - born in England due to the wet weather - tends to isolate the wood (in different ways, but almost always with very diluted hhg) and to create a solid foundation for the following shellac layers. Somehow the washing with egg is after the same idea.

I have found that a simple solution of shellac and pumice to seal the (rosewood) is one of the simplest forms of French polish one can use for a guitar with deep pores in the wood. Normally, it is not necessary for cypress guitars.

Naturally, there will always be a build up uneven finish that will have to be leveled as you go, but the final finish will be as good as you make it, with the leveling process.

The trick is to not get oil in the wood for the first few coats so as to avoid uneven blotchy places in the wood itself.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2021 21:39:51

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

OMG

Where to begin with the misconceptions?

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2021 2:02:36

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to ernandez R)

I repaired a crack on the guitar of my Friend Abel Sánchez. When he visited me at my workshop I asked him to play something on my second guitar. I put some mics at the backyard and this is what happened:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2021 21:14:22

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

Wow, Mango! Olé!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2021 21:22:19

Stu

Posts: 2522
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

This looks awesome man! great vid of you(?) playing it too. sounds delightful. and your pal plays great on it too!!

one of your early black and white pictures. does the ebony slope downwards towards the sound board or are my eyes deceiving me?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2021 9:30:40

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to Stu)

quote:

This looks awesome man! great vid of you(?) playing it too. sounds delightful. and your pal plays great on it too!!

one of your early black and white pictures. does the ebony slope downwards towards the sound board or are my eyes deceiving me?

Yes I did the video. Unfortunately I didn't notice that the shake reduction was disabled. But I love the look of that old 50mm lens which bought my mom in the 70s ;-)

Yes the fingerboard is sloped down after the last fret. First I was not sure if I like it that way... but now I do.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2021 12:36:15

Stu

Posts: 2522
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

is there a practical reason for the slope? or just aesthetics?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2021 12:53:12

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to RobF)

quote:

I have run into difficulty when using oil as a sanding lube on the finished surface of a top and have inadvertently sanded through. The bare spot was a bugger to recover, as the shellac just didn’t seem to want to take in that area.

I have only stripped the finish off of parts of soundboards because I discovered scratches or glue after the finishing commenced. I did run into the same problem once or twice, of new finish not wanting to stick where I had sanded with oil. It was just a small spot. I used a small brush to apply finish there and then it was okay. Anyway, with a closed pore wood such as spruce, there is no danger of naptha seeping into the pores.

You could well be correct that the problem I had with the neck bubbling was due to the particular piece of cedro. That makes me feel better because I felt so stupid having to refinish it.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2021 4:45:03

bahen

Posts: 378
Joined: Mar. 4 2006

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

quote:

a

Fantastic! Where is your workshop? I'm in the market for a new / used guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2021 4:40:04

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

Man that sounds great, your budy is quite the player too.

Up thread a ways you mentioned working on a Flamenco guitar and violin combo. Anything come of it? Sounded intriguing.

Super busy now that I'm walking more and getting our place ready for winter but my building season is about to start!

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2021 5:12:17

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to bahen)

quote:

Fantastic! Where is your workshop? I'm in the market for a new / used guitar!

Thanks! My Workshop is in Berlin. I am currently working on my third guitar, so no plans to sell anything yet. But the day may come... or not, I don't know. Where are you living?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2021 10:10:04

bahen

Posts: 378
Joined: Mar. 4 2006

RE: Ebony dust (in reply to mango)

I lived in Alt Treptow, Berlin for years, but actually just recently moved back to Oxford. Good luck with the third guitar, looking forward to seeing the pics and videos. Really enjoyed the last set.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2021 6:50:23