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I mean; if I want a perfectly centered rosette then I’ll buy a factory made Alhambra.

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ORIGINAL: RobF

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I mean; if I want a perfectly centered rosette then I’ll buy a factory made Alhambra.

Huh? So, that’s where all the guitars with perfectly aligned rosettes are from!

Seriously though, the flaws I pointed out are not the hallmarks of high-end luthier made guitars. Not saying they don’t exist, but they should be minimized. Another way of looking at it is that, while they may exist as indications of hand craftsmanship, they nevertheless are still errors.

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ORIGINAL: RobF

Group hug behind the port-a-potty at seven!

It’s like the other day I overheard someone saying “Well, you have to respect his decision!” I thought...what??? Since when? Since we started mangling our languages and supplanting reality with individual “truths”? What a crock of whatever. Of course one should respect another’s right to make a decision, but there should be no and indeed there is no obligation to respect the decision, itself.

Your opinions on what makes a good guitar are just that and are only as well informed as you are. You came here asking for advice, and when it was offered by people who almost certainly know more about the craft than you do, you disrespect them and argue until you feel you’ve heard what you wanted to hear.

I’m happy the Condes helped you out. Whatever your decision, I hope it works out for you.

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Nothing wrong with that because I ain’t an expert too, but don’t act like you or someone else here knows more than someone you don’t know, that’s hilarious.

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ORIGINAL: RobF

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Nothing wrong with that because I ain’t an expert too, but don’t act like you or someone else here knows more than someone you don’t know, that’s hilarious.

That’s OK. And it is hilarious, because Echi and I both do know more about this subject than you do. Sorry. And, while I may have been off about the tuner swap, you should ignore Echi’s concerns at your own peril.

Also, the swapping out of high-end Fusteros is a common practice these days. There is a recent post here of another, same vintage, Conde that I know for sure originally had the higher end Fusteros on it but is now sporting Gotoh tuners. But, you’re right, if the guitar you want was originally made with low-end tuners, then at least you now know.

Finally, I am not a Conde hater, I own a nice one. If you check over past postings you will see I invariably champion them, rather than put them down. But, I have to say the BS to reality ratio grows exponentially when people start talking Conde. I don’t know why, it started out as a joke apparently, but people regularly come on here spouting BS and expecting members, who actually do know their sh*t, to sit back and accept it. But it is misinformation, and I see no reason to countenance it, beyond that not being nice all the time apparently is bad for one’s career. Oh well, lol...

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ORIGINAL: Echi

Look, if you are happy with the guitar, and with the answer of Maria Conde, just go ahead and buy it. Really.
If you ask me, I still think there is something wrong about it and the very fact that the seller has available another guitar from 2002 with the same rosette (both in as new condition) is not convincing me.
I am not even sure Felipe Conde is that expert about the Gravina Conde of the years 2000 as from 1989 he was running a completely different shop.
Anyway I just shared my opinion judging from some internet pictures and based on my experience: as I already admitted there is a chance I may be wrong and have no interest in being as**olish with you.

Good luck.

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The guitar is definitely a Conde. Well… made under the Conde name. But ‘factory’ made.

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ORIGINAL: Piwin

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The guitar is definitely a Conde. Well… made under the Conde name. But ‘factory’ made.

I thought when people talked about "fake Condes" this is exactly what they had in mind. No? They were actually talking about complete counterfeits that have no connection at all to the Conde family?

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Echi: Anyway I just shared my opinion judging from some internet pictures and based on my experience: as I already admitted there is a chance I may be wrong and have no interest in being as**olish with you.

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Pontecorvo: I own an electric guitar store for more than 25 years now, I don’t know you, maybe you know more about electric guitars than I do.
That’s what I mean.

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But who or what can be called Conde?

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ORIGINAL: RobF

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Echi: Anyway I just shared my opinion judging from some internet pictures and based on my experience: as I already admitted there is a chance I may be wrong and have no interest in being as**olish with you.

I really wish Echi wouldn’t have put the asterisks in that word because now I don’t know what it is, although I have a feeling he might have been hinting that I’ve been acting like one.

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Pontecorvo: I own an electric guitar store for more than 25 years now, I don’t know you, maybe you know more about electric guitars than I do.
That’s what I mean.

I do know what you mean, and I appreciate your point. I don’t consider myself to be an expert on electric guitars, at all, although I currently own ten. My point is, if I went on a Fender forum and asked a question about a Stratocaster, for instance, it would be implicit in my being there doing the asking that I am acknowledging that those answering my question will likely know more about the subject than I do. If I responded with the equivalent of “Well, that’s just your opinion, man.” to the people who were trying to help me then I might find they won’t want to engage for very long. Why should they?

But, if I was coming across like an as**ole, whatever that is, then I apologize. Best I can do is promise I’ll try to stay out of these Conde threads, or the other threads where people join the Foro expecting the members to behave like some kind of free resource and climb all over each other trying to help, sometimes never even receiving a nod for their trouble. Maybe you caught me on a bad day, or maybe I just don’t feel like being helpful any longer. It’s too thankless, what’s the point?

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ORIGINAL: Piwin

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But who or what can be called Conde?

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. I thought the people who were talking about "fake Condes" were basically talking about guitars sold under a Conde name but made by somebody else working for them. Guess it gets you into kind of weird territory, coz basically you end up saying there's the "approved" counterfeits and the "not-approved" counterfeits?

Anyway, I honestly don't know much about this stuff. 5 years living just one subway ride away from their shop and I still don't care all that much for their guitars lol ^^

Guess I don't really see where you're coming from. Approaching it as a player, I don't find that the answer "factory made by Conde" (and indeed, who knows what that means) gives me any more assurances on the quality of the guitar than "not a Conde". I guess I'd extend the "not every handmade guitar is better than a factory made one" to "not every original is better than a counterfeit".

From what I gather, we're talking 2.5k range. If it's a good guitar, I'd buy at that price regardless of the label. It wouldn't particularly matter to me who made it. That's within range for a good used guitar. But I'm thinking just in terms of playing, and not about resale value or anything like that.

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Well, I am very happy with all your input, Rob.

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Well, what I know for sure is that nowadays lower priced Conde’s (that means even guitars around 6000 euro’s) are made FOR Conde, not by Conde.

To me that’s a Conde, to others not.

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ORIGINAL: Piwin

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Well, what I know for sure is that nowadays lower priced Conde’s (that means even guitars around 6000 euro’s) are made FOR Conde, not by Conde.

To me that’s a Conde, to others not.

And it's orange.

Anyway, good luck. Hope the guitar turns out to be to your liking.

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it’s orange, and I’m Dutch.

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ORIGINAL: Echi

I own a couple of Conde myself, I tried and examined many (and I mean many) and sold some other.
Conde from Calle Gravina till the beginning of the nineties are my favourites, then Calle Felipe V used to make the better ones with a consistent quality production even though you could pick good guitars also from the other Conde shops: I myself found an excellent late Gravina which I repent not to have bought, but in general the guitars of Calle Gravina of the years 2000 are undoubtedly less consistent and a little shabby made.
Having seen many Conde, those 2002 guitars don’t look as the 2002 Conde I tried in the past and some elements are incoherent to my eyes.

Second remark is that there is someone selling on the 2nd hand market false Conde guitars.
These false Condes are not copies of the good old ones (which would be difficult to replicate faithfully) but copies of the more recent Gravina and Atocha, as in those years they used to outsource some of the guitars in Valencia and there is a certain variety in the production.

Till here is what I know for sure.

Now, in this 3D I have suggested to be careful as I suspect that Conde may be not original.
I have no evidences but we already easily found 3 Conde from Calle Gravina of 2002 for sale; all with cheap Chinese tuners.
If this doesn’t ring any bell to you….

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ORIGINAL: Echi

You see, there are many little details but you need to have the guitar in your hands and take a look inside to say something trustful.

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prices back then, I know this because I bought from them and I know what I paid, but the current value today is significantly higher, maybe ten times higher now. It’s funny how as the street value of the last of the hand engraved Fusteros increased they started disappearing off of the guitars in shops, only to be replaced by tuners of lesser value. So, when a dealer says it makes no difference, who cares, they are liars, that’s all.

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input.

I will get back on this forum after I made the decision.