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The 1974 Blanca with pegs I tend to play the most because the sound is characteristic of the times back then when I grew up playing flamenco. More recent guitars have better volume overall and great responsiveness but the sound tends to be more neutral if there is such a thing. Character is a very personal thing but when you play certain guitars you hear certain times and places,,,very esoteric I lnow lol
Yes, I've concluded I must be imprinted on the sound of the '67 Ramirez 1a blanca my then-wife gave me as a wedding present. It's the guitar that taught me how to play. I have an '82 Arcangel Fernandez spruce blanca I actually play more, and a 2019 Tom Blackshear spruce/Indian that is a great guitar, but when I get out the Ramirez it really resonates with memories.
I do as well, and a couple years ago he got an old Conde and I must admit that I think it sounds the most flamenco out of all his guitars that I’ve heard him play, on YouTube anyway
Me I can’t understand/get into this fascination with Instagram.
I think the kids ran to Instagram when their parents got Facebook accounts. And then their parents got on Instagram and they ran to tic tack of whatever it’s called
when I get out the Ramirez it really resonates with memories.
Same for me.
1965 Viuda y Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso blanca 1968 Jose Ramirez III blanca (cedar top, pegs) 1978 Manuel Reyes blanca (ex Pepe Martinez) 1989 Antonio Ariza blanca (pegs) 1990 Manuel Bellido blanca (pegs) 1996 Manuel Bellido blanca 2003 Conde Hermanos A26 blanca
I must be imprinted on the sound of the '67 Ramirez 1a blanca
To me it was a surprise to find out that Fuente y Caudal (just the taranta itself) was recorded on peg-headed Ramirez blanca (his friend Carlos Rebato owned it). If you look at the album cover it is regular conde negra there. Yet the sound of that taranta to me is the most mystical from all I heard. It doesnt sound as good when he plays the same on his Conde negra.
o me it was a surprise to find out that Fuente y Caudal (just the taranta itself) was recorded on peg-headed Ramirez blanca (his friend Carlos Rebato owned it)
I currently own: a '64 Sobrinos de Esteso (Bocote and spruce) a '74 Jose Lppez Bellido a '80 Ramirez (spruce and cypress) a 81 Hermanos Conde (spruce and cypress) an 82 Gerundino (Rosewood and spruce -> to be restored). a 90 Sanchis Carpio (actually 2 of them ).
I must be imprinted on the sound of the '67 Ramirez 1a blanca
To me it was a surprise to find out that Fuente y Caudal (just the taranta itself) was recorded on peg-headed Ramirez blanca (his friend Carlos Rebato owned it). If you look at the album cover it is regular conde negra there. Yet the sound of that taranta to me is the most mystical from all I heard. It doesnt sound as good when he plays the same on his Conde negra.
Sorry to disagree here, but at that time he found some weird strings that have a certain tone that changed the color of his main guitar he always used. Here you can hear the identical audio artifacts, in this case, so I am quite certain this was the combo used on the whole album. You can also check things like bulerias and fandangos and granainas especially where the same audio artifacts (these strings are very dry and snappy whatever they are compared to other live performances with same guitar). All my opinion, but try a blind fold test against those Ramirez videos…I don’t hear that ramirez on any Paco recording honestly. And I agree other live videos of the same pieces don’t match so close the Album version Audio as from the below performance. Could also be he raised the bone saddle after this time. But IMO it is the string combo here.
In my opinion the speed is not regular as it's quite a poor video but the recording is likely to be with that Ramirez I have a recording of Paco where you can hear someone shutting up the crowd when he starts playing; I later found an old tube video with the very same audio with the same noise. Of course it's just my opinion and everybody knows Paco played almost exclusively Conde; yet in a couple of interviews he mentions to own also a Ramirez in his collection.
I actually raised a question in fb Guitarristas flamencos. There are serious players there who are very actively post communicate. Almost everyone thought Fuente is done on Conde, until Juan Estrada commented about Ramirez blanca. I would trust what he says as he did manage Paco's performances at exact same time. Also to my ears, it is not a negra on that recording, just no way.
Guys just a suggestion, some have enormously good collections, including a number of great guitars. I personally would love to hear which guitar you think is the best and which one you happen to play most often. I would assume the two might not necessarily be the same - maybe you are careful with that perfect guitar, or it sounds great but hard to play, etc.
I have 4 and although Glenn Canin is un-doubtably the best of them I happen to mostly practice and use my Jose Romero'92. Despite all the problems it has (muffled sound if pushed too hard on rasgueados), scale of 660 which makes me stretch more than on 650. Still something really personal going on when I pick it. I heard Paco had some love/hate relationship with his concert guitar which was very hard and he refused to play it home.
Oh yeah!! I think thats the sound. His conde would be much heavier on the bass, sorry Ricardo.
I’ve been concerned about this issue for long time. He does a playback to the Granaina on light and shade and since then I realized how strong the confirmation bias is affecting the perception of the guitar’s voice. Luckily paco used lots of different guitars and has many video evidences to compare. The ramirez on Rito has a certain voice and I search hard for that one. I had to rule it out sorry. It remained a mystery until the video appeared and answered my question. Same goes for other guitars and albums and anecdotal evidence, so I’ve been diligent about avoiding that confirmation bias. To me the evidence is crystal clear, but folks are free to imagine whatever fantasy they want.
Ever play a ramirez blanca? They are very sparkly and lyrical guitars, lots of sustain. The Fuente guitar is super dry, almost dead. Again like the video I showed. It’s maybe possible the same strings affect some random ramirez that way. But my gut says it’s the guitar in the video
I played a 60s 2a briefly. Nice guitar but I couldn’t afford to buy it at the time. It makes sense what you’re saying. I’m just reporting what Juan said - he could of course be mistaken.
Agujetas, Paco in a couple of occasions mentioned some guitars he owns in his collection and mentioned Esteso, one of Santos and Ramirez. The Ramirez of the video belonged to the owner of the Tablao.
Ricardo, with Ramirez you have quite a lot of variety: you can get also a dry sounding one, particularly if it is from the sixties. in my opinion some very good ones came out in the eighties (as you say more lyrical).
Zendalex: I like all my guitars. my favourite is easily the '81 Conde Hermanos: it has it all for me but I mostly love her voice. The tone is almost compressed and very projecting: pulsation de rebate and never gets you down.
I'm very close also to the '74 Lopez Bellido even though I don't play it so often: I used to have a bigger and powerful Bellido from 2000 but I kept the old '74 Bellido for a better "pulsation" and very lyrical trebles very reminding Reyes: the inner strutting is made of cedar and it used to belong to an active concert player: Years ago I discovered some small woodworms started to eat the struts... This is also the guitar I shellacked and I pictured in the liuterie sections few days ago. That guitar has kind of perfect proportions and something capturing.
My Ramirez is the best sounding Ramirez (very subjective, I know) I happened to try: It use to belong to Manuel Cano of Cordoba and then to Gianvito Pulzone, the main guitarist of the Quitart Quartet. There is something odd in the label numbering (A411) and I got it's a guitar made under specifications of Jose IV in a time where Ramirez planned to renew the flamenco line: Same plantilla and strutting of the Old Ramirez but spruce top and a Rosette design used in the fifties. Unfortunately at some stages (before I bought it) the sides cracked here and there: now are fixed and stable and refinished. This is the guitar I play the most after the Conde as it is very clear and powerful and very versatile. The bottom end is typical Ramirez as you would associate with Sabicas.
Last mention for the Sanchis Carpio which is a work horse and is surprisingly in the same league of excellent guitars.
I used to own other guitars but these I ended keeping.
I believe Paco also owned or played guitars by Vicente Carrillo, Antonio Morales, Juan Montero and no doubt many others. It’s funny, I would also have said that 60s Ramirez blancas were dry sounding. However, listening to some videos on YouTube the 60s Condes definitely sound drier to my ears, but maybe that’s confirmation bias at work.
The taranta on Fuente has some white noise tape hiss and sounds like it was done at a different time?. Agree the guitar sounds very dry whatever it it’s, but could also be the recording of that track throwing things off compared to the others.
I believe Paco also owned or played guitars by Vicente Carrillo, Antonio Morales, Juan Montero
The Carrillo he used a little on the cositas buenas, but also his main conde can be heard. (Compare buleria to the buleria por solea). The Devoe he used I think as second guitar on Volar. The juan montero Aguilar had a boxy classical tone IMO you can here it on Zyryab for TARANTA and rumba and probably the arpegios of Cancion de amor. The rest sounds like his regular conde.
Cositas Buenas has been recorded when Paco was launching his series of guitars made by Carrillo. I think that’s the main reason he recorded the album with a Carrillo/Paco De Lucioa series ( Vicente did something similar with Memorias de Los sentidos. Then he has been occasionally pictured here and there with other guitars in 50 years of career but eventually this doesn’t mean too much. Paco has been seen playing few concerts with a De Voe blanca at the time when Carrillo was fixing is favourite Conde and basically he recorded his last album with guitars made by friends: Antonio Morales, Lester and Romero (just for a track). His whole career he basically played Conde of the years ‘75-82. Anyway it’s fair to remember that Paco kept purposely a commercial distance with Conde after Faustino died.
I visited the Luthiers store a few years back, when Tony was still alive and found that Sanchis Carpio was indeed very good and I compared it to Gerundino, few Condes and etc. The guitars made by Carpio are in a different league than what are being mass produced by Hnos Sanchis Lopez in their factory.
Guys just a suggestion, some have enormously good collections, including a number of great guitars. I personally would love to hear which guitar you think is the best and which one you happen to play most often. I would assume the two might not necessarily be the same - maybe you are careful with that perfect guitar, or it sounds great but hard to play, etc.
Would love to hear your stories.
At present I have four classicals and three flamencas. I tend to play one genre for a month or more at a time. Eventually I get bored with, say, classical and switch to flamenco for a month or more, and continue to alternate.
For me, each instrument has its own personality. I would say each is a professional level guitar, capable of everything required in its genre. Their makers are well known, highly experienced luthiers.
There is one of the classicals I seldom play, and occasionally think of selling. But when I take it out and play it, I invariably say to myself, "This is actually a great guitar." I just don't like it as well as the other classicals.
One classical and one flamenco are "collector's items." Their market price is far beyond the norm for professional quaiity instruments. I love them both. But I play the other two flamencas as much as I do the expensive one. You can hear the 1982 Arcangel Fernandez blanca here:
I think Ricardo prefers his Condes, but I like the Arcangel a lot. So have other knowledgeable players. Some have tried it and the '67 Ramirez blanca, and have preferred the Ramirez.
The third flamenca is the most recent, Tom Blackshear's #329, a "Reyes model" negra, which I bought November before last. Tom said he thought the trebles were outstanding, and the basses "adequate." The basses have since developed. The guitar is balanced, very loud, has a "firm" tone, and is perfectly even across strings and up and down the fretboard. Tom definitely recommends D'Addario EJ-46 high tension strings for it. The action is low enought to be easy on the left hand without excessive buzzing. The right hand requires a firmer touch. It is the only one I own which I consider suitable for both classical and flamenco. It is the equal of the other two flamencos (individuals might prefer any one of the flamencos to the other two) perfectly capable on classical, but not not quite as much to my taste for it as the "classicals."
You ask which is the best. Of the seven guitars I consider only one to be better than the rest. It is Jose Romanillos #407, a 1973 spruce/Indian.
Twenty-one years ago it took me a month of playing it to conclude that it was a little better than the only other classical I had at the time, the one I now play the least. Now when I take the Romanillos out and play it, it takes me at least a half hour to adjust to it well enough to say to myself, "Yes, this is the best one."
It requires very precise right hand technique. Once you adjust to that it produces a Hauser-like clarity and brilliance, but with maybe a little more warmth. It is capable of the widest variety of tone colors--important for a classical--once you learn to produce them.
The other six are all great guitars. I might prefer one or the other for a specific piece or style, but I would not say they could be ranked objectively.
Like a fine wine or a woman you would fall in love with, once a guitar reaches a certain level, one is not "better" than the other, they are just different.
Some don't make the grade. Several years ago I bought a classical, played it for a while, but ended up giving it to the local classical guitar society. They gave it to a student who is now using it in her university degree program. I would say that objectively it was not as good as any of the classicals I now own.
For me, among the seven only the Romanillos inspires awe. But professional players have switched from Romanillos to other makers.
Different players like--or love--different instruments.
Richard thanks for the extensive review. It is all very interesting, and the alegria by Ricardo was excellent. Wondering that was some hotel you guys met?
A hotel in Old Town, Alexandria, Virginia. It's just down the street from the restaurant where Ricardo and Sara were gigging, but we met in the daytime.
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