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RE: Can a white man play the blues?
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kitarist
Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to kitarist)
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quote:
The one thing that remains for me as a new stable fact, not speculation, is that in 1835-1838 there was a gypsy song containing the phrase "Flamenca de Roma(*)'; the word 'flamenca' in that clearly referring to a gypsy/Roma woman and not to a Flemish person. I think that by itself is quite amazing. How it came about is another matter, as we see still open to hypothesizing. (*) It occured to me that the fact that a gypsy song says 'flamenca de Roma' rather than just 'flamenca' - i.e. that the gypsy cantaor/author felt the need to specify which type of flamenco person - may be an indication that the time frame 1835-38 is very close to when this meaning first emerged (hence the need to clarify which one of the two uses is employed). I found further contemporaneous corroboration that 'flamenca de Roma' refers to a gitana (and not, for example, to a person from Rome): In 1845 Prosper Mérimée's novella "Carmen" got published. 30 years later, in 1875, it would be turned by Georges Bizet into a famous opera. (Also, there is a connection to George Borrow's 1841 "The Zincali" as it served as a background source on gitanos) But Mérimée had visited Spain in 1830 and had been studying the gypsy people. So when the Countess of Montijo told him, in 1830, a story about a ruffian from Malaga killing his mistress, Mérimée decided to make her a gitana and the heroine of his novel. In this edition on page 79 a footnote reads: (To be clear, I am only referring to the 'roma' part of the footnote; the rest of the claim - about 'why a flemming' - is, in contrast, not more than a [not very believable] guess; whereas flamenca de Roma referring to a gitana was a contemporaneously observed usage.)
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Konstantin
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Date May 8 2021 6:35:55
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
I fear if that ruffian W. Barkell hears of this toughery he may be inspired to afront you with a brisk round of fisticuffs! Ho there, I caution you not to stir the fighting spirit in the loins of Herr Jernigan or W. Barkell lest you desire a sound arse whip! Nay, Sir Stephen, 'tis not Sir Rob I seek. I seek the one who blackened my name with false charges and scurrilous slander that led to my discharge from the Queen's Service and into the life I now lead as a highwayman, riding the post roads in search of plunder and the villain who forced me outside the law. When I eventually catch him we shall enter the nearest tavern, and I shall request of the serving wench: "Swords for two and brandy for one." At that, I shall dispatch him to his well-deserved fate. William of Lancaster
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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Date May 8 2021 13:09:29
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Estevan)
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quote:
Why, that blackguard Harry Paget Flashman, I'll wager! While I fully intend to spend this cold and rainy evening sequestered in front of a modest fire with a glass of whiskey to read my newly found Carmen novel, the following quotes from some of the later Flashman books have convinced me to add them to my summer’s reading list...or at least give one a shot. “Well, even from above and through a muslin screen there was no doubt that she was female, and no need for stays to make the best of it, either; she stood like an ebony statue as the two wenches began to bathe her from bowls of water. Some vulgar lout grunted lasciviously, and realizing who it was I shrank back a trifle in sudden anxiety that I'd been overheard.” For a moment there I thought the description was of myself. Or this one... “It's a remarkable thing (and I've traded on it all my life) that a single redeeming quality in a black sheep wins greater esteem than all the virtues in honest men — especially if the quality is courage. I'm lucky, because while I don't have it, I look as though I do...” How about this... “Blustering hadn't helped me, and a look at Rudi's mocking face told me that whining wouldn't either. Robbed of the two cards which I normally play in a crisis, I was momentarily lost.” All the world needs a hero. And this is one of my favorite quotes from a friend of mine, who escaped from an Eastern Bloc country many years ago with only the clothes on his back, leaving behind all he held dear...”What most people don’t realize about me is I’m not very smart. I’ve learned to use this to my advantage.”
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Date May 8 2021 22:16:29
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to Estevan)
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quote:
Why, that blackguard Harry Paget Flashman, I'll wager! Aye, Flashman it is. The man is indeed a blackguard, a cad, and a poltroon, always appearing courageous while doing his utmost to avoid danger and shirk his duty. William
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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Date May 9 2021 14:09:22
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Estevan
Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía
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RE: Can a white man play the blues? (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
quote: rising like a salmon at the far post, or lofting a loose chinaman over silly mid-off. Forgive my ignorance, but in trying to look up the two phrases above, I couldn't find exact quotes but found similar phrasing with regard to cricket. Are they terms used in cricket? If not, what do they refer to? The second is indeed an example of the arcane terminology of cricket. It's a long time since I've played it or followed it, as a result of moving across the pond in my early years, but at least I recognized "silly mid-off" as one of the fielding positions. I had to look up this usage of "chinaman" to discover that it is a style of bowling. The chap doing the lofting in this instance is the batsman who is hitting such a delivery over that position. The first example is from football or soccer (as you will). I haven't heard the expression, but "the far post" and a player jumping (however poetically) indicate that the action is a corner kick, a situation in which the attacking players often have a chance to head the ball into the net, which usually necessitates jumping higher than the surrounding defenders. The metaphor put me in mind of Peter Drury, a commentator known for his distinctively "poetical" style, which, though frequently forced and over the top (or because of that), can be quite hilarious - and an amusing contrast to his usual colleagues who are former players informing us that "They've got to put the ball in the back of the net". For example, sometime last year, after an excellent win in the days before my team completely forgot how to play, Drury rhapsodized "On a balmy English summer evening, Liverpool are the cream to pour on your strawberries".
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Me da igual. La música es música.
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Date May 9 2021 21:44:59
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