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It went much further than that outside of this forum. Really nasty stuff.

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ORIGINAL: Morante

I remember Jay as having very strong opinions and little knowledge. He made a vicious attack on Estela for saying that a particular letra of tangos calls for a Gmin. I supported her, with musical examples and made an instant enemy I never met him but imagine he would have been a difficult companion.

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ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Reading a smattering of flamencology has taught me the value of an attitude best exemplified by Sportin’ Life in the Gershwin brothers’ “Porgy and Bess”

“Things that you’re liable
To read in the Bible
Ain’t necessarily so.”

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Hay una rara concordancia acerca de este punto, una concordancia nada habitual entre quienes se han ocupado de una investigación tan resbaladiza, tan incierta siempre, como la del flamenco.

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ORIGINAL: Morante

I remember Jay as having very strong opinions and little knowledge. He made a vicious attack on Estela for saying that a particular letra of tangos calls for a Gmin. I supported her, with musical examples and made an instant enemy I never met him but imagine he would have been a difficult companion.

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Since the dawn of Paco de Lucía, the harmonic palette has exploded and you can no longer get by with three chords per cante like in the old days. I know youngsters who consider the cejilla something the old guitarists used to use. Juan Maya, one of the greatest accompanists of all time (IMO) told me shortly before his death that he could no longer play for cante, because young singers expected chords he never used. Does that mean he was playing the “wrong chords”?

As recently as Perico del Lunar, Gm was not used in cante accompaniment, even for styles where we now consider it the only possible option (tientos such as “Inmediato” or bulerías such as “Joselito Joselito”). Was everyone accompanying those cantes “wrong”?

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Thought that was funny cuz I’ve heard it used. Gm is almost as bad as the Bm7b5 that got whitehead and McGuire banned from foro

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ost as bad as the Bm7b5 that got whitehead and McGuire banned from foro

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The one thing that remains for me as a new stable fact, not speculation, is that in 1835-1838 there was a gypsy song containing the phrase "Flamenca de Roma(*)'; the word 'flamenca' in that clearly referring to a gypsy/Roma woman and not to a Flemish person. I think that by itself is quite amazing. How it came about is another matter, as we see still open to hypothesizing.

(*) It occured to me that the fact that a gypsy song says 'flamenca de Roma' rather than just 'flamenca' - i.e. that the gypsy cantaor/author felt the need to specify which type of flamenco person - may be an indication that the time frame 1835-38 is very close to when this meaning first emerged (hence the need to clarify which one of the two uses is employed).

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found further contemporaneous corroboration that 'flamenca de Roma' refers to a gitana (and not, for example, to a person from Rome):

In 1845 Prosper Mérimée's novel "Carmen" got published. 30 years later, in 1875, the novel would be turned by Georges Bizet into a famous opera. (Also, there is a connection to George Borrow's 1841 "The Zincali" as it served as a background source on gitanos) But Mérimée had visited Spain in 1830 and had been studying the gypsy people. So when the Countess of Montijo told him, in 1830, a story about a ruffian from Malaga killing his mistress, Mérimée decided to make her a gitana and the heroine of his novel.

In this edition on page 79 a footnote reads:

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He spitted himself on my Sabre ....

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He joined here, pissed off a lot of people, threatened serious violence and then he died in NYC.

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That’s just the way they fought in those days... “after pummelling my fist with his vituperative visage, he swiftly engaged my foot with the forefront of his derrière and, whilst violently grabbing my hand with his arm and holding it firmly to his back, let out a howl to wake the dead as he dragged me swiftly towards the door...” and so on.

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Why ever would either of those fine gentlemen be driven to violence upon my personage due to a parody of the descriptive mores of the long dead past? Truly, I find your words disturbing. Arse whip, indeed, is this thread closed to the witticisms of others?

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I fear if that ruffian W. Barkell hears of this toughery he may be inspired to afront you with a brisk round of fisticuffs! Ho there, I caution you not to stir the fighting spirit in the loins of Herr Jernigan or W. Barkell lest you desire a sound arse whip!

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ORIGINAL: RobF

That’s quite an interesting find, a few pages further on in the story we learn that the British were referred to as “lobsters” by the Spanish. The footnote indicates this was due to the color of their uniforms, rather than the effect of the strong sunlight on their complexion.

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I seek the one who blackened my name with false charges and scurrilous slander

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Why, that blackguard Harry Paget Flashman, I'll wager!

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Why, that blackguard Harry Paget Flashman, I'll wager!

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rising like a salmon at the far post

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rising like a salmon at the far post

!
Peter Drury?

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rising like a salmon at the far post, or lofting a loose chinaman over silly mid-off.

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rising like a salmon at the far post, or lofting a loose chinaman over silly mid-off.

Forgive my ignorance, but in trying to look up the two phrases above, I couldn't find exact quotes but found similar phrasing with regard to cricket. Are they terms used in cricket? If not, what do they refer to?

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"the far post"