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Festival Jerez
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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 RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Internet has opened the eyes of the world to what were local treasures, so thousands of chulos come and ruin them. I suppose that it the same in every country with tradition.
Sometime last spring/summer, it was all the hype to talk about how the pandemic had revealed X or Y problem, and how it offered an opportunity to start doing things differently. Pollution, over-tourism, etc. Always some article in the news about something like that.
Now my guess is that, as soon as this is over, we go back to doing exactly what we were doing before. Even whatever bits of solidarity we managed to muster will evaporate in a matter of days. I hope I'm wrong.
"Aforo limitado" might be a good idea for tourism in certain regions. Though if we do that, it'll probably just mean that whoever has the most money gets to go, not whoever has the most interest/respect for the place.
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Date Mar. 14 2021 18:46:23
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Quite right!!! This kind of tourist who has no respect for the culture is not welcome in Andalusía.
It’s funny, but that is almost exactly what my friend said to me when I pointed out some of that “tourist go home” graffiti that was going around Granada a couple of years ago. It was all done by the same hand and, in this instance, had been sprayed on the wall of the Arcos de las Pesas. My friend, who is a gitano native to Sacromonte, seemed to hold no belief that the graffiti artist was from there, saying the graffiti showed “no respect for Granada”. This was very important to him and it took a while for him to regain his normally sunny disposition after I pointed it out. I noticed afterwards that he tended to ignore such graffiti, preferring to pretend that it didn’t exist.
Just so I’m not misunderstood, in better times my friend seemed to spend an inordinate portion of his day giving directions to tourists, and did so without complaint and always in a helpful manner. But, showing disrespect for his home is a cardinal sin, he and his family have no time for this.
More on topic, this year might be a good time to go to the festival, as it’s quite possible the crowds will be significantly reduced due to the pandemic. I assume there will be a strong push for tourism next year as localities try to rebuild their economies, so this year might turn out to be a sweet spot.
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Date Mar. 15 2021 15:44:24
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Quite right!!! This kind of tourist who has no respect for the culture is not welcome in Andalusía.
I mean, I don't know where tf10 went exactly, but if it was like me it just means that he went up to one of the outdoor areas of the Alhambra that stay open through the night. There's a nice view of the Albaicin from there and it's nice and quiet, away from the crowds of party-goers. So it's a nice place to sit and have a quiet chat. It's also publicly accessible during the day, but yeah, in normal times there would be a lot of people up there during the day. The security guard just told us that drinking wasn't allowed there and asked us to leave. Which I get. Even if we were a tranquil bunch not drinking much at all, actual botellons can get out of hand and leave a mess. That certainly wasn't going to happen with us, but he saw a group of youngsters and figured it was best to play it safe and ask us to leave. Which is fair.
It's been a while since I've been back. IIRC, in the Albaicin the larger issues were more about the local population leaving, and foreigners buying property there. It felt more like gentrification than anything else. The tourism aspect had more to do with certain restrictions that were being added. For instance, when they added more restrictions on car traffic in the area to favor pedestrian traffic, some banners went up saying "we are not a postcard". And downtown, I don't remember international tourism being that much of a problem, but maybe it was. The town did seem to attract an unusual amount of despedidas de soltero/a from all throughout Spain. It was common to run into 4 or 5 of those groups on any given Saturday. Usually dressed in the customary tacky attire and being rowdy, and usually not from Granada. Also: hippies. lol. For better or worse that area sure attracts the hippies ^^
But dunno. There certainly was a lot of tourism there. But at the same time, well, no cruise ships are coming in, and even international flights don't for the most part go there (most people would land in Malaga I guess), so I guess it's just enough off the beaten path to avoid getting too much of the troubles related to international tourism. Something like that.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Mar. 15 2021 16:25:15
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tf10music
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan. 3 2017
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to Piwin)
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quote:
I mean, I don't know where tf10 went exactly, but if it was like me it just means that he went up to one of the outdoor areas of the Alhambra that stay open through the night. There's a nice view of the Albaicin from there and it's nice and quiet, away from the crowds of party-goers. So it's a nice place to sit and have a quiet chat. It's also publicly accessible during the day, but yeah, in normal times there would be a lot of people up there during the day.
Correct. I'd never take an open container into los palacios. It was nice to just sit and hear my friend's stories about how accessible the Alhambra used to be in the '70s when he was a kid.
The Albaicín is certainly gentrified, and every year the Sacromonte gets more and more privatized (interestingly, it seems like the hippies are partly responsible for this). There are certain paths that have been open for decades that only recently (like, in the last year) got fenced off as private property.
At this point, I think the key to Granada is to know the right people and the right spots, and that takes time/effort. While that might be frustrating at first, it also means that the good stuff doesn't get overrun by tourism so often.
There's a lot of international tourism over the summer in Granada, but the peak tourism months there are in early autumn, and it's always domestic tourists who are visiting over a puente or something along those lines.
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Date Mar. 15 2021 19:55:37
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to Morante)
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Would it help to know that this being over run by tourist is not your problem alone, nor is having your culture asemulated for cash.
We live in a small Alaskan village, we have a two hundred yard Main Street, 900 year round residents along a twenty mile road. The cruse ships bring over a thousand tourist a day.
It's funny, they never leave Main Street, we live about 200 yards away and its always quite and calm here.
It's a love hate relationship.
We will most likely be bankrupt by the fall, there are some federal monies coming our way but no real light for us in the future. My partner started here over twenty years ago, sleepy little drinking town with a mountain climbing problem. Fishing and hiking, views and solitude galore, glaciers rivers and lakes, the kind of space our European visitors say don't exist untouched anywhere else.
Neither of us want the ships to come back but not sure how to exist without all their cash? The Boss says I better sell a lot of guitars. Sadly it looks like I will be traveling out west to ply my aviation maintenance skills in order to make enough money for us to survive through the next winter.
I can't say we've lost a culture that wasn't already gone by the 1930s, the last working dog team I knew of was finished before I arrived and to be honest the last working snow machine too, they are ridden for fun now and a few do keep dogs.
The Alaskan native population was decimated by disease: siphliss, whisky, and religion. The so called Spanish flue killed off most that had survived the calamity of progress and the core of any culture they had retained. Ironically those areas first settled by the Russian orthadox had kept more of their native heritage while those settled by their American counterparts, the Protestants, lost everything. And just to be fair and balanced the Catholics sent their pedifile rapist priests to the outlaying villages of western Alaska.
This problem is world wide and it could be said a product of a freedom few in the world have had until now? It could be a function of gross overpopulation? More likly it's a combanation of varied ideas and dreams and marketing and exploited wealth and isms I can't recall at the moment.
My gut feeling is there is a hunger, that many are searching for something inside their selves and not finding it are striking outside their world. Funny cause when I run into the type I tell them to get a little mirror and give it a glance, for within lies all they search for. I call it my ruby red slippers rule of life. If you recall Glenda the Good witch askes Dorothy what she had learned of Oz, don't recall exactly but something about don't go looking any farther then your own back yard: there's no pace like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home...
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
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Date Mar. 16 2021 6:55:27
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to mrstwinkle)
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quote:
Most places have taken a disastrous approach to the pandemic.
Your link to the "Great Barrington Declaration" is instructive. We have a real-world comparative example to judge the efficacy of the protocols (or lack thereof) outlined in the "Great Barrington Declaration vs. the use of masks, social distancing, and locking down of bars, festivals, and other crowded venues.
The Nordic countries provide a telling example. Denmark, Finland, and Norway adhered to the recognized protocols, while Sweden did not and pretty much followed the lack of protocols advocated in the "Declaration." The highest number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths in the Nordic countries as of March 11, 2021, had occurred in Sweden at 13,111. Denmark followed with 2,384 deaths, Finland with 783, and Norway with 639.
As the statistics indicate, Sweden had approximately six times more deaths than Denmark, 17 times more deaths than Finland, and 20 times more deaths than Norway. These deaths were in no way commensurate with the comparative populations of each country. A couple of months ago, the Swedish Health Minister even admitted that they probably got it wrong by not following the basic protocols.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 16 2021 18:27:43
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Festival Jerez (in reply to mrstwinkle)
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quote:
You comparisons are cherry picked.
They are not "cherry picked." They are real-world examples of four Nordic countries with very similar populations in ethnicity, geographic location, and health. One, Sweden, did not follow Covid-19 protocols (and pretty much followed your "Great Barrington Declaration") and experienced disastrous death rates. The other three, Denmark, Finland, and Norway, followed prescribed Covd-19 protocols and fared much better.
The Nordic countries, with their similarities in geography, population, health, and social well-being, were a great laboratory to test the efficacy of the differing approach to Covid-19 practiced by Sweden vs. the other three, Denmark, Finland, and Norway. That Sweden ended up with such a disastrous death rate while the other three experienced very modest death rates was predicted by health experts.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 16 2021 19:36:02
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