RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack thereof)

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Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to tele)

quote:

this is unbelievable

Not so; JW is quite right. I know quite a number of flamencos with house and car, who live well.

The downside is that they have to work with dancers and travel constantly, which does not help family life.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2017 10:58:33

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Certainly, I saw lots of baile just don't recall them with Jose although, upon reflection, there may have been one with Chocolate with him singing from the wings.

Looking back over some old programmes I can see that not all shows have featured dance, even though it's still mainly a dance programme. Most of the shows are by a main dancer (eg. Sara Baras, Eva Yerbabuena, Farruquito etc.) or dance company. I haven't included fringe shows in the Lilian Bylis studio.

2009 had 6 shows: 5 dance shows plus Estrella Morente, with no dancer listed in the programme for her show. Also no solo guitarist on that year's line-up.

2010 programme had 5 shows, all dance companies, no guitarist or singer headlined.

2012 had 8 shows: 5 dance shows plus Vicente Amigo with a dancer, Gerardo Nuñez with Carmen Cortés, and José Mercé without a dancer.

2013 had 8 shows: 6 dance shows plus Tomatito with a "featured dancer", and Estrella Morente, again without a dancer.

2014 Had 6 shows. 5 dance shows plus Miguel Poveda with a dancer. No guitarist had their own show.

2015 Had 7 shows: 5 dance shows plus Arcángel with a "guest dancer" and Gerardo Nuñez with Carmen Cortés.

2016 Had 7 shows: 5 dance shows plus Vicente Amigo, again with a dancer, and Esperanza Fernández with a "guest artist" dancer.

2017 I don't have because we only booked for one show, and on the day when we got to the station all the trains were cancelled because of Storm Doris. We tried to drive instead but the roads were closed/blocked too!

So, is it going uphill or downhill? I don't know.... 2010 had no headline guitarist or singer.... but every other year there has been either a headline singer or both headline singer and headline guitarist.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2017 17:04:56

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to mark indigo)

Thanks for that info.

I got to meet Moraíto in the bar next door afterwards, so it was worth it just for that memory. Great guy.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2017 18:36:37

Brendan

Posts: 353
Joined: Oct. 30 2010

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to mark indigo)

I am delighted to have provoked some archival research. And to have been proved wrong: I’d forgotten about the more recent shows with guitarists headlining.

I stopped buying the programmes. Most of the performers seem to say one of two things. Either, they’re taking flamenco to a new place, while remembering and respecting its roots, or, they’re getting back to the roots but with a modern flavour.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2017 21:04:13

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

this is unbelievable

Not so; JW is quite right. I know quite a number of flamencos with house and car, who live well.

The downside is that they have to work with dancers and travel constantly, which does not help family life.

I meant it's unbelievable to be a pro flamenco guitarist in Finland.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2017 21:58:15

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to mark indigo)

Pretty sure the festival in Nimes has cante only shows. Looking at the program for next year I can see two that make no mention of dance: Luis Moneo / Antonio Reyes and Pepe de Puro. And there are at least three other shows headlined by singers with invited dancers.

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2017 5:37:12

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Brendan)

quote:

Most of the performers seem to say one of two things. Either, they’re taking flamenco to a new place, while remembering and respecting its roots, or, they’re getting back to the roots but with a modern flavour.

Yeah that's about right.... but I buy the programmes so that in future years I can a) remember who I've seen, and b) post the statistics of baile/cante/guitarra!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2017 9:04:42

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

the festival in Nimes

even with the chunnel/eurostar that's a bit of a stretch for me

. Just getting to London is bad enough. We can't get home to our local train station afterwards because the trains don't stop there after about 9pm. So it's an hour drive, then an hour on the train, then getting from the station to the venue. The price of the travel on top of show ticket doubles or exceeds the price of the ticket... I usually try to get to maybe two shows in the festival, depending on availability of time and money.

I get the impression France, and especially the south, is better for flamenco than the UK. A number of flamenco artists (eg. Antonio Moya?) were born there of Andalucian parents. Either they (parents) fled Spain during/after the civil war or were migrant workers.

Germany also seems to be better for flamenco than the UK (eg. Rafael Cortés) due again to migrant workers, mostly from Andalucia. Same I guess with Netherlands and Belgium. Continental Europe generally seems much better for flamenco than the UK.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2017 9:11:21

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

then getting from the station to the venue.

if anyone reading this gets as far as the station I'll pick you up and give you a ride to the show

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2017 13:46:18

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

The future of flamenco is a robot playing paco de Lucia in our living rooms while we look at our phones. Let's see what happens when we give the robot a Yamaha CG171SF to play!

Do you mean something like this? This poor guitar wanted to escape but it looks like it was already too late.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2020 20:59:07

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to soclydeza85)

Everyone knows this famous question and the answer:

What’s the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist?

A jazz guitarist plays 1000 chords in front of 3 people.
A rock guitarist plays 3 chords in front of 1000 people.

How about flamenco cante? A flamenco guitarist plays 3 chords in front of 3 people?

So what’s the difference between a rock guitarist, a jazz guitarist and a flamenco guitarist?

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 15:35:15

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

So what’s the difference between a rock guitarist, a jazz guitarist and a flamenco guitarist?

When a Jazz guitarist takes a solo everybody sits at their tables and talks quietly over their drinks, when a Flamenco guitarist takes a solo everybody heads to the bar and talks quietly over their drinks, when a rock guitarist takes a solo everybody heads to the bar next door and watches football.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 16:09:43

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to devilhand)

So a rock guitarist, a jazz guitarist, and a flamenco guitarist walk into a bar....

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 18:28:52

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to BarkellWH)

There’s gotta be some lightbulb jokes in here, somewhere...OK, I’ve got another...

A flamenco guitarist, jazz guitarist, and rock guitarist were walking through the woods one day.

The rock guitarist called out “Hey guys, come here and have a look at this, what kind of tracks are these?”

The jazz guitarist called out, “I can’t see them from here, Cecil, perhaps they’re deer tracks?”

The flamenco guitarist calls out, “Olé! Maybe a Toro?”

The rock guitarist says, “I dunno, man, they’re pretty big...”

Then the train ran over him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 19:05:44

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to RobF)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch the Lone Ranger had disguised himself as a door. Tonto, not knowing this, shot his knob off.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 20:05:56

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

So a rock guitarist, a jazz guitarist, and a flamenco guitarist walk into a bar....

My favourite "walks into a bar" joke is by Bill Bailey and goes something like this:

"An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar, and the scenario plays out with tedious predictability"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2021 21:45:28

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to soclydeza85)

Flamenco is really dying out. I can see a trend. For example flamenco websites in spanish with tons of useful information and links are disappearing with no reason one by one.
A recent example is https://flun.cica.es/

We have to restore the remaining ones in webarchive or something. One of my favourites is this one. The good news is it's still working

https://www.horizonteflamenco.com/figuras

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2021 15:07:27

Kaloguitarist

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

I am no where near any of you guys with my playing...

But, I have decided to quite flamenco guitar....

Woman who try to play have no place as it is a man's world. You either sing or dance it.

In Arizona, we have flamenco dance studio. I had gotten good enough in understanding compas to accompany and learn even more. More so, I wanted to belong and was not accepted and not welcomed as the head teacher (FEMALE) did not support my endeavors to want to learn. The guy who they had playing for dance class was not good. I would rate him as beginner. But she supported him because of what looked politically correct.

If flamenco is truly dying it is because of the STRICT RULES on what is deemed culturally accepted by the gypsies...

And that comment that was made about Jazz guitar vs Rock guitar (regarding that rock plays three chord and has a wider audience)

That is a joke...Only guitar nerds would quote something like this...Maybe rock has feel that people understand more so then what is cool technically.

It's not all about play technical.....It is about FEEL...

Regarding flamenco, I have seen my own nationality regarding Greek music die because of who was allowed in the club and who was not....Bouzouki and its roots is barely alive....

The kids in Greece want to punk rock, EDM, hip hop...Anything, but the bouzouki. They did it too themselves...I had seen it many years ago...

I am sorry to say I see it with flamenco as well....

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2021 19:55:28

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

Sorry to hear that Kalo.
I remember you posting a solea clip a while back and I enjoyed your playing.

I'd imagine it's even harder in Arizona, just because there are probably less flamenco "groups" to belong to, and if it doesn't work with one there aren't many other alternatives.

I hope you don't feel excluded here on the foro though. Personally I've enjoyed your posts over the last year.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2021 20:29:48

Kaloguitarist

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Sorry to hear that Kalo.
I remember you posting a solea clip a while back and I enjoyed your playing.

I'd imagine it's even harder in Arizona, just because there are probably less flamenco "groups" to belong to, and if it doesn't work with one there aren't many other alternatives.

I hope you don't feel excluded here on the foro though. Personally I've enjoyed your posts over the last year.

Thanks Piwin....

I have never felt excluded from the foro. You all are a great bunch here. Everyone has been supported.

But, I feel that it is human nature to want to share stuff and belong with others. Why keep playing and practicing to play to the four walls.

I dislike to admit this but posting videos on youtube was not as satisfying either. That was the only reason for me to continue.

Even youtube seems so competitive and hoping that someone will watch and enjoy my progress was starting to feel lame.

Youtube is another story and if you want viewership you have to PAY for it....

If the gals in Spain are having a tuff time...Well, I think I will play my rock guitar and bass guitar and jam out.

It's much more satisfying when having a stressful day at work. I can also (pre corona virus days) go to jam nites to share with other musicians...

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2021 20:38:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

quote:

If the gals in Spain are having a tuff time...Well, I think I will play my rock guitar and bass guitar and jam out.

Are you friends with Mercedes Lujan in spain on social media? You might want to reach out to her for moral support...I follow her and she is always gigging and doing cool things including accompanying one of my heroes Maria Vargas. She was just advertising some gigs she was doing with a group of girls as well. No need to get down because of your crappy local scene. Trust me, my local scene has had its ups and downs as well, and I have to work hard to create my own inspiring work environment.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2021 21:12:53

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

quote:

I have decided to quite flamenco guitar....

Hi Kalo.
I hope you don’t quit. Flamenco is more than just guitar, and it can be with you as long as you want it, so maybe just look at the current situation as a temporary setback, a speedbump, as it were. I mean, taking a break is cool, especially if you’re in an unsympathetic environment, but if you stop you might miss the opportunity to meet people near you who are more simpatico.

But, if you do stop playing it, I hope you still keep in touch on the Foro, to keep the flame burning, or at least stop the pilot light from going out.

And, please, don’t worry about the jokes, they’re just dumb jokes made by frustrated comedians. Well, except mine, they’re really funny. Haha. Lol.

Best wishes,
Rob

P.S. I play bass and electric guitar, too. Simon, who runs the Foro, likes playing blues, there’s lots of different interests here. So, if you want, you can post about other styles and talk about it in the Off-topic section, so there’s even another good reason to stay in touch.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2021 23:08:11

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

Kalo,

I remember you were a member of the Foro several years ago and then dropped off. You reconnected over the last year, and I just want to say that I have appreciated your comments and observations on the Foro. And you appeared to be coming along fine with your video of a solea' last year.

I would echo Rob in saying that I hope you maintain your membership and presence on the Foro. Don't let that ugly incident with the dance studio in Phoenix deter you from enjoying flamenco. Even if you concentrate on rock, you can still enjoy flamenco. And you can contribute to the various conversations on the Foro as well. You might have noticed we have some interesting conversations and debates.

Stay strong and don't let the bastards get you down. You have a home here.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 2:18:50

Kaloguitarist

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

Wow,

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement!

quote:

Are you friends with Mercedes Lujan in spain on social media? You might want to reach out to her for moral support...I follow her and she is always gigging and doing cool things including accompanying one of my heroes Maria Vargas. She was just advertising some gigs she was doing with a group of girls as well. No need to get down because of your crappy local scene. Trust me, my local scene has had its ups and downs as well, and I have to work hard to create my own inspiring work environment.

Thanks for the tip Ricardo! I was not aware of Mercedes Lujan or her social media. It's great to see a female striving in the flamenco! I will try to reach out!

quote:

P.S. I play bass and electric guitar, too. Simon, who runs the Foro, likes playing blues, there’s lots of different interests here. So, if you want, you can post about other styles and talk about it in the Off-topic section, so there’s even another good reason to stay in touch.

Wow RobF., So there are other fellow musicians who love bass, electric guitar plus flamenco! That is AWESOME! I did not know you and Simon play bass and electric guitar! I love many different styles of guitar as well. I guess I could split up my playing time between flamenco and bass or electric. It can't hurt....

quote:

I would echo Rob in saying that I hope you maintain your membership and presence on the Foro. Don't let that ugly incident with the dance studio in Phoenix deter you from enjoying flamenco. Even if you concentrate on rock, you can still enjoy flamenco. And you can contribute to the various conversations on the Foro as well. You might have noticed we have some interesting conversations and debates.

Stay strong and don't let the bastards get you down. You have a home here.

Bill, thank you for your encouragement. i do APPRECIATE this forum and hope it NEVER burns out.

I have learned a lot from the many posts on this forum.

Well, if I do continue to play flamenco, I will post more videos! I hope flamenco doesn't burn out! It would be sad to see! I am grateful that so many of you enjoy it and help so many who need help and inspiration!

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 14:33:44

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

quote:

I guess I could split up my playing time between flamenco and bass or electric. It can't hurt....

How could it hurt? I lived in the US south and Andalucía and I have always felt an affinity between the blues and flamenco. Really good blues is just as hard for me.

I played guitar and bass in an Indy band in the 80s too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 17:55:09

Kaloguitarist

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

How could it hurt? I lived in the US south and Andalucía and I have always felt an affinity between the blues and flamenco. Really good blues is just as hard for me.

I played guitar and bass in an Indy band in the 80s too.

Esbcribano, Awesome that you played guitar and bass in an Indy band!

They say flamenco is the blues of nylon guitar!!! So, I guess playing electric blues on guitar is also good.

To be honest learning flamenco compas has helped my electric guitar and bass playing alot!!!....

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 18:04:35

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

quote:

I am no where near any of you guys with my playing...

I watched your Solea practice video on youtube. You play better than me for sure. I'm still working on my techniques. I've been practicing for about 11 months. I try to practice everyday which demands a certain amount of discipline. Sometimes I see no progress leaving me a bit frustrated. But I haven't given up because I know the next day will be totally different. So keep it up!

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 19:33:40

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Kaloguitarist)

quote:

Esbcribano, Awesome that you played guitar and bass in an Indy band!

Enjoy my old band. I wrote some of it and am on the really tight bass, in one take with ex-Velvet Underground violinist. Very sadly, the trumpet player was murdered, dismembered and strewn around London last year :-( RIP William Algar.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 20:25:19

Kaloguitarist

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020

RE: Flamenco popularity (or lack the... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

I watched your Solea practice video on youtube. You play better than me for sure. I'm still working on my techniques. I've been practicing for about 11 months. I try to practice everyday which demands a certain amount of discipline. Sometimes I see no progress leaving me a bit frustrated. But I haven't given up because I know the next day will be totally different. So keep it up!

Devilhand, Thank you for your support! I am sure you play good. We are our worst critics!

quote:

Enjoy my old band. I wrote some of it and am on the really tight bass, in one take with ex-Velvet Underground violinist. Very sadly, the trumpet player was murdered, dismembered and strewn around London last year :-( RIP William Algar.

WHOA ESCRIBANO!!!! I loved your BASS playing!!!!! I loved the song!!! Reminds me of Velvet Underground, Bowie, and CURE!! Really love this style and you even had an Ex Velvet playing with you too....My hats off!!!

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 21:17:46