E and D string are off/to sharp

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Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

E and D string are off/to sharp

Hi all,

i have this guitar where the pitch of 2 strings is anoingly off.. If I tune it open G, all is fine. Then, for example, if I set the capo at 3 or 6 The Low E (bass) and the D, are too far out of tune, meaning, too sharp (2-3 steps on the tuner).

Is there anything I can do about that? As sonically this is verry unatractive when playing open chords and things like that...

Thanks for your thoughts in advance!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 13:35:23

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

I think I answered my own question:

from https://blog.discmakers.com/2014/07/guitar-intonation-how-to-keep-your-guitar-in-tune/

“For a quick check to see how much intonation adjustment is needed,” says Stevens, “I like to use one of the guitar tuners that has a needle to register intonation and an LED that goes to green when the string is in tune. First, tune an open string so it’s in tune using the tuner, then go on up to the 12th fret and press down and play the octave of the open string. If it’s a bit flat, you can shorten the string length by moving the saddle toward the fretboard using the adjustment screw [on an electric guitar]. If the octave registers as sharp, then you’ll lengthen the string by using the adjusting screw to move the saddle in the opposite direction, away from the fretboard.

Thanks for listening anyway :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 21:30:24

mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

steel string?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2021 10:31:06

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

quote:

If I tune it open G, all is fine. Then, for example, if I set the capo at 3 or 6 The Low E (bass) and the D, are too far out of tune, meaning, too sharp

1. If you tuned it 'open G' i.e. D-G-D-G-B-D, why do you talk about low E?
2. Why not just quickly re-tune the two strings when you put the capo on?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2021 18:43:16

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Every guitar I have ever capo'ed in the last 60 years has needed to be re-tuned.

If you're in a big hurry you can get the first and sixth strings to agree by pressing down on one side of the capo or the other, but the ones in the middle will be out.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2021 20:24:09

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Thanks for all your replies. I understand from your responds that I do not explained myself clear enough. My apollogies.

@mango; no, nylon
@konstantin; 1. sorry, you are right; I tune to open E and 2. my "problem is, that if I play a bare or some base line with some higher trebles, the notes are to much off to my liking. It sounds out of tune.
@Richard; I have one guitar where it annoys me. I know my other guitars are also not perfectly on every note but all in all it sounds nice. I have this one guitar, it just does not feel right to me. Its a negra and the bass is nice and growling but the trebbels generally sound like they are in overdrive mode. So I reconned this might be due to the larger difference in tuning.

Cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 8 2021 11:31:28

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

The compensation of the saddle might not be as good as it could be. There are ways to fix it if that is the problem.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 8 2021 15:12:41

etta

Posts: 341
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Compensated nut; that is the trick but requires time and skill.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2021 14:16:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schieper

Thanks for all your replies. I understand from your responds that I do not explained myself clear enough. My apollogies.

@mango; no, nylon
@konstantin; 1. sorry, you are right; I tune to open E and 2. my "problem is, that if I play a bare or some base line with some higher trebles, the notes are to much off to my liking. It sounds out of tune.
@Richard; I have one guitar where it annoys me. I know my other guitars are also not perfectly on every note but all in all it sounds nice. I have this one guitar, it just does not feel right to me. Its a negra and the bass is nice and growling but the trebbels generally sound like they are in overdrive mode. So I reconned this might be due to the larger difference in tuning.

Cheers!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2021 14:25:09

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

pff. No I got this entry level luthier build guitar where I invested many a penny in to catapult myself into the highest regions of Flamenco players .. and along comes Ricardo to tell me it’s not the guitar but me mediocre technique...
Well.. thank you I guess.. 😊

(awesome video.. )

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2021 12:34:41

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Richard had a lot to say that can be beneficial to consider.

If the basic playing scale is measurably correct then his statement is of great value.

Every guitar will be different to some extent and has to be treated differently by its player.

I won't get into fine tuning the voice but to listen closely to what Richard says.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2021 17:33:34

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Dog, I had forgot about Ricardo's tune your Freaken guitar vid!!!

I have one guitar I missed the fret layup some how, it's subtle but when I'm playing around with a few or more in the cabnit in the house I might sence a difference between guitars of simalar build but when I pick up this one there is something off I can't place and I've not been able to locate with a tuner. Can't say ive tried all that much. It's a 23 inch scale and thinking fret distances become more critical the shorter the scale?

I'm guessing it has to be really bad to be bad and otherwise we can become atune just or as our mind will disregard a flaw once it becomes normalized with use or time. Not having the best luck choosing words to discirbe this.

I've seen players so wrapped up in tuning and retuning... Was tending bar at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz for a couple years, we would play a game amungst ourselves: guitar or bass tuned and we did a kazzi round. As you can imagine some nights it got a little rough.

I did catch a mismarked fret line once by eye, sure enough I had switched a couple units, I use a scale graduated in hundrithes of an inch, that would be like .25mm. I use a vary sharp probe to make a tiny dot then a squar and scalpel,to make a perfect line. I mark the side of the fretboard cause I use a band saw with a special blade to cut my fret slots after the fretboard is glued to the neck but before the neck is glued to the top and ribs. I'm reworking this some with my next guitars but still ill fret the assembly befor hand cause I feel it works well for me.

I set the frets in boiled linseed oil, check with a rocker and reset accordingly, then I flip,her over onto a thick piece of vary flats and smooth granit, clamp down, then deadblow the back side of the neck cause.

I like to string up in the white for a week and then I'll hit the frets with a vary fine flat file.

When the guitar is done the frets are mostly perfect but I'll rocker them and file if need be. Been making the first fret about .003 taller then the second. i find I get .007-.010 relief by string tension but the next four necks I made up a couple weeks ago have full depth carbon fiber webs so I might need to ether rethink my perfectly flat fretboard or just work it into the frets by filing...

I remove all the file marks with 400 wet dry paper, then 600, then steel wool, then a little red polishing compound on a small buffing wheel with the Dreamal. This last run takes more time to mask off the whole fretboard then the filing and sanding and polishing. Would look nicer if I spent a whole hour I sopose but I'm building players guitars not collectors.

Ha, didn't really intend to write all this but went through it yesterday on one and the day before on another so it's all fresh in my mind.. The Boss is asleep so I can't play...

HR

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2021 9:15:52

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

Hi all,

just to update. Recently I made a new bridge from bone which I left just a tad higher and I "inserted the bone at the G string so teh string is a tad longer. Than I put on new strings. This time Savarez HT with nylon treble. Now the strings have set, the quitar is much better. Teh High E is much more pleasent and the G is also more even.

Could all also be imaginatoin but now I realy liek this new sound. I also realized I need to play a bit different than on my blanca. Meaning, hitting closer to the sound hole and aiming for the middel strings. So thanks all... I hope that makes sence :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2021 14:53:48

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: E and D string are off/to sharp (in reply to Schieper)

quote:

Could all also be imaginatoin but now I realy liek this new sound. I also realized I need to play a bit different than on my blanca. Meaning, hitting closer to the sound hole and aiming for the middel strings. So thanks all... I hope that makes sence :-)

Could be the higher tension of the strings making you want to play closer to the sound hole where there is less tension for the right hand. Glad you got it sorted out. It can be frustrating with little saddle adjustments

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2021 17:05:59