Your learning progress

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devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

Your learning progress

I'd like to ask you guys about personal stories on your early years of learning to play flamenco guitar.

How long did it take you to learn the fundamentals of all neccessary flamenco guitar techniques? I mean only fundamentals that are just enough to make your guitar playing sound flamenco.

How many hours per week and under what circumstances (with or without youtube videos or teacher. Only a few learning materials etc.) did you practice to achieve this?

Any tips on I wish I knew as a beginner?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 13:23:23

rombsix

Posts: 7806
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

I started at age 16 while in high school and I took private lessons with a teacher in Beirut. I supplemented that with the Oscar Herrero Paso a Paso DVD series. During the summer break, I would practice about seven hours a day. During school / college, I would practice one hour a day. I think I peaked, technique-wise, in the first five to ten years, and I then got busier and busier so I could barely maintain or was losing technique. I think I started to sound relatively flamenco by the five-year mark.

I think the most important tip is this: discipline, and to work on your weaknesses rather than get tempted to take the path of least resistance where you work on what you already do well, because if that happens, you'll have fun, but in ten years, you'll realize - "Oh crap - ten years have passed, and I've made minimal progress".

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 16:29:47

JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

I think the most important tip is this: discipline, and to work on your weaknesses rather than get tempted to take the path of least resistance where you work on what you already do well, because if that happens, you'll have fun, but in ten years, you'll realize - "Oh crap - ten years have passed, and I've made minimal progress".

Mmhmm. Ain’t that the truth

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 21:19:40

Fluknu

Posts: 151
Joined: Jan. 11 2021

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

I started 4 years ago, with a background of electric guitar. I practice about 3 hours a day. More if I can, but with work and family that's seldom the case.

I second Ramzi and JasonM: every little bug, should be fixed. I find an exercice for every little unperfection. I've lost much time playing compasses and falsetas from begginning to end, thinking it was ok. When I work on the groove, that's what I do, in loop, until it's clean and groovy. For falsetas, there's always parts that bug, due to a lack of a certain technique, or the change from a technique to the other. I loop it, or create an exercise that I generalise for other chords. There's so many different techniques in a Falseta. Each is a world in itself. I've stopped learning new material 3 monts ago and only practice all the falsetas I know. And I press them like oranges and build exercises with their specificities. And I generalise them. It's sounds boring but it's not. It's a bit like in Karate kid when he has to wash the soil and windows with a special move of the hands and Arms..LOL.
It's my technique at the moment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2021 20:51:56

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

My flamenco journey.

1. Started learning flamenco on my classical guitar. Wasn’t going well.
2. Bought a flamenco guitar....the rest is history.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2021 22:43:16

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

My flamenco journey.

1. Started learning flamenco on my classical guitar. Wasn’t going well.
2. Bought a flamenco guitar....the rest is history.

🔥 😄😄

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2021 10:05:15

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I'd like to ask you guys about personal stories on your early years of learning to play flamenco guitar.

In the beginning I was so full of it I could barely learn anything (some would no doubt say not much has changed, but only those that didn't know me back then)

quote:

How long did it take you to learn the fundamentals of all neccessary flamenco guitar techniques? I mean only fundamentals that are just enough to make your guitar playing sound flamenco.

How many hours per week and under what circumstances (with or without youtube videos or teacher. Only a few learning materials etc.) did you practice to achieve this?

I know it doesn't answer your question and it's not what you want to hear, but really I think it's a life's work of constant refinement.

quote:

Any tips on I wish I knew as a beginner?

Stay focused on the ultimate goal, but give up any hope of ever arriving at the destination, learn to just enjoy the journey.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2021 16:17:11

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to rombsix)

Thanks guys for the input. Reading something like I practiced 3-7 hours a day makes me want to practice more often. But 7 hours a day is impossible for me now. One hour a day sounds good to me although I tend to practice 2-3 hours once started. I try to be consistent with my practice which has been difficult so far. David Russel homepage has good tips for guitarist which goes like this:

"There is no short cut to becoming a good player. Being constant in your practice is perhaps the main secret"

quote:

I then got busier and busier so I ... was losing technique.

How is that possible? Do you mean your arps, tremolo or picado got slower?

quote:

1. Started learning flamenco on my classical guitar. Wasn’t going well.

Yes. Classical guitars have higher string height at the bridge. Except for that if you practice on a classical guitar what was slowing down your progress?

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2021 16:28:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Except for that if you practice on a classical guitar what was slowing down your progress?

The point is to “sound flamenco”, that is the goal the student should be aiming for. This elusive “sound” is the result of technical details including: the right hand techniques, the left hand techniques, the knowledge of the music forms (cante and accompaniment), the rhythms (baile and compas), and all those considered equal, the physical instrument itself...meaning its set up, materials, strings, and construction design. Simply put there is lots to learn and it starts with having a proper instrument.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2021 17:36:30

rombsix

Posts: 7806
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

How is that possible? Do you mean your arps, tremolo or picado got slower?

I got busier, so I had no time to practice, and all of my techniques got worse/slower/sloppier.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2021 17:14:36

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to rombsix)

I had a similar experience to Ramzi's. I was at the point where I could play a number of Mario Escudero's and Niño Ricardo's pieces reasonably well, and some of Sabicas's that didn't employ his blazing picado or more complex rasgueados, but I began to travel much more on business. Being without an instrument for a week at a time, a couple of times a month led to more and more mistakes, awkwardness and loss of control.

I became so frustrated I vowed to quit playing. I couldn't. When I got home, the guitar came out of the case and I played badly. Then I began taking a guitar with me when I traveled. Instead of hanging out at the hotel bar in the evenings I practiced in my room, and got back in shape.

Many years later I begain to experience numbness in 3 and 4 of the left hand. It likely resuted from a pinched nerve in my neck from an old motorcycle accident. I did quit playing then.

About five years later I retired. I fooled around with a guitar a bit. With no time constraints I gradually decided to see what could be done. When I started back trying to play the left hand pinky wouldn't even go to the right string. But I began to see slight improvement.

After about seven years of practicing a couple of hours a day, with occasional breaks of a month or more for leisure travel, I play better than I did before. This is because the left hand weakness made me pay careful attention to the development of technique. The numbness and weakness are effectively gone. I am impressed by the plasticity of the brain and peripheral nervous system.

It wasn't a case of hard bitten dedication to a task. I was just seeing where it would go.

My main obstacle has been impatience: trying to move ahead too fast in developing technique and overcoming the nerve problem.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2021 22:29:10

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

How is that possible? Do you mean your arps, tremolo or picado got slower?

I got busier, so I had no time to practice, and all of my techniques got worse/slower/sloppier.

But after practicing extensively a few days everything comes back?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2021 18:38:24

rombsix

Posts: 7806
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

But after practicing extensively a few days everything comes back?

Indeed.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2021 19:41:30

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

What do you guys think when is the best time to practice during the day? I've already started to practice after a big meal. Seems like it's the best time. My muscles and tendons feel strong. How about you? Any thoughts?

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 19:38:42

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

Right before you put down the guitar

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 19:44:22

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

What do you guys think when is the best time to practice during the day?

between when you wake up and when you go to sleep!

Slightly more serious answer:

I like to get some technique practise done as early in the day as possible, otherwise I might not do it.

And I also like to play through anything I'm trying to learn/remember before I go to sleep as I read once somewhere long ago that if you do that your brain works on it in your sleep.

In between as much as possible.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2021 22:55:07

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to rombsix)

Similar story, started fiddling around on a classical, sounded horrible, bugged my father to by me a flamenco guitar which he did, then I started slowly realizing how to make it sound good. In those days I could afford to practice/play several hours a day. Then I found the local flamenco community and started accompanying dance, did that for about ten years. Nowadays I spend more time on transcriptions than on the guitar, my technique is rusty, but it does come back after practice. I've however forgotten much of the material I used to know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2021 1:46:59

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Your learning progress (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

What do you guys think when is the best time to practice during the day? I've already started to practice after a big meal. Seems like it's the best time. My muscles and tendons feel strong. How about you? Any thoughts?

After pracitcing this way a couple of weeks I can assure you now this is the best time. You can avoid possible injuries or irritation/inflamation of your tendon. But the best way is to practice different techniques in one practice session. Also work only on your left hand in between.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2021 12:13:35