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Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA
Flamenco guitar building class
I am 63 and have yet to start my dream of building a guitar. My daughter sent me this and it looks pretty intriguing and worthwhile. I probably won't get into this until I retire in another year or two. At one point he mentions Spanish Cypress that came Gerundino's stock.
Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
Hola
You will learn nothing practical from videos. You need to learn hands on. Look for a practical course. There used to be one in Granada for example. you have to see, touch and feel. I have worked in a taller and assisted in construction courses. It is surprising what you can learn in a week of practical work with a maestro.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
C, I like Pablo Requenia and find I have got a lot out of his videos. His online package isn't as many hours as O'brian. To be honest if you had both I'm betting each includes those jems of knowlasge that make this kind of information priceless.
Before this damn pandamic, we had penciled in a month long trip to Spain so I could build a guitar with Pablo. Also had a trip planed to visit a few American flamenco luthiers with one of my guitars in hand, some wood to test with Norcal Brian, Ethan D in Seattle, Tom in Texas...
I know O'brian does a class with a Spansh luthier once or twice a year in the US, I looked into it but thought doing it in Spain much more.... Ah, aesthetically pleasing.
I know building a guitar is really a lifetime learning experience and starting at over fifty is a handicap but what the heck. The boss complained about the time I was spending in the shop last year some time, I just looked at her and said, I can put these tools away and walk down to the bar and have a few drinks... I have checked a lot of adventure boxes in my life, come close to loosing it a few times along the way, I don't need that kind of thrill anymore, dancing under that F'n moose last spring fighting for my life kinda took it out of me, I look forward to my time in the shop, simple challenges of wood and glue mastered each day or week, yet certain that there will always be one more, that my best build won't be the best or the last, my hands shake a little, old timers and too many chemicals, but who cares. I'm excited about getting my guitars into the hands of music makers, sound dreamers, strummers and pickers, Flamencas!
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
I also came across this video course when I first thought about to build a guitar by myself. But then I found it too expensive somehow... I decided to go for books and first bought the one from John Bogdanovich for 25 EUR which gave me a good overview of the whole construction process... Finally I also bought the book from Roy Courtnall but followed Bogdanovich´s method for my first build with a couple of changes...
I guess a hands on course with a master builder is the best choice if you have the time and the money... but I would prefer to buy some books and some good woodworking tools for the money that O´Brien is asking to watch the videos...
There are also many free videos on YouTube from Pablo Requena where he explains certain topics... I found them very helpful in addition to the books.
But it's a personal choice depending on how you learn best...
Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to ernandez R)
I don't know anything about his "package," but Pablo Requena has a lot of FREE videos on Youtube that are extremely good and useful. He also offers courses in person at his home in Spain.
This guy too, less of a totorial but worth watching more then once to get some good ideas: This is part one of five I think.
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to mango)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mango
I also came across this video course when I first thought about to build a guitar by myself. But then I found it too expensive somehow... I decided to go for books and first bought the one from John Bogdanovich for 25 EUR which gave me a good overview of the whole construction process... Finally I also bought the book from Roy Courtnall but followed Bogdanovich´s method for my first build with a couple of changes...
I guess a hands on course with a master builder is the best choice if you have the time and the money... but I would prefer to buy some books and some good woodworking tools for the money that O´Brien is asking to watch the videos...
There are also many free videos on YouTube from Pablo Requena where he explains certain topics... I found them very helpful in addition to the books.
But it's a personal choice depending on how you learn best...
Mango, I did basically the same thing, downloaded a few how to books on my kindle, the two print books you mentioned. Found the most meat in the Foro and Delcamp Lutherie threads to be honest. I didn't really care for the O' Brian videoes for some reason.
Still, I'm fortunate enough to have the time and means to travel and get some experience with a master builder. Some days I feel I work a little magic but many I feel I'm a hack up here in the wilderness. I've sold a few so at least I'm sort of paying for the lights and sandpaper, glue and band aids. Going into a new store here in town with a lot more trafic then where I was before so I'm excited about that.
I always tell people building a string instrument is a lifetime learning experience. Did I mention the cello top set I have in the shop...
Just glued up, planed, and working on the rosset of four tops, super excited, can't sleep for thinking about them, two Flamenca and two classical...
Looking like I'll get the anti coved jab in a few weeks and then figure five weeks afterwords and I'm going somewhere, anywhere, perhaps Spain if they will have me.
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
quote:
I am 63 and have yet to start my dream of building a guitar. My daughter sent me this and it looks pretty intriguing and worthwhile. I probably won't get into this until I retire in another year or two. At one point he mentions Spanish Cypress that came Gerundino's stock.
I have this course and used it to build my first guitar. But instead of using Paco Chorobo’s plans that go with the course, I used Blackshear’s Reyes.
Overall, it’s pretty thorough, and unlike other courses for classical guitar, this guy knows the importance of neck angle geometry and how a good flamenco guitar should play and sound. Not that Raquena doesn’t, but his class is for a classical guitar not flamenco.
That said, I think Pablo Raquena’s videos that he has on YouTube are extremely helpful, his techniques and craftsmanship are more refined, then Chorobo. The studio lighting could be better in Pacos class.
The O’Brien class places much less emphasis on the rosette and inlay stuff, and more on construction. For a flamenco guitar, If I had to choose just one class, this would be a safe bet. Talking to others who used it to build their first flamenco, they have all been happy.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to JasonM)
Jason,
Of course, "Flamenco course" that sounds helpful. I've read many generalizations on what makes a flamenco build, tossed out many and made up a few of my own...
It's been almost a year, how are you liking yours? Perhaps an update on your last build thread might beta better place though.
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
I know folks are talking about old age on here, but it is funny to read one guy post a Pablo vid then it gets recommended again twice, next the guy who posted the first Pablo vid posts the vid of the guy who posted the third Pablo recommendation, not realizing he admitted to wanting to go visit that same guy 😂
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Ricardo)
Ricardo,
Not sure what you mean? And who are you kidding, you know you watch all these how to guitar videos and secretly wish you could build your own. Think it would be a fun project with your kids.
How do you feel about building, think you have one in you or are you that guy who couldn’t color within the lines? Had a kid in the shop last month dyslexic who couldn’t measure with a ruler and never used tools, turned out he was vary skilled once I found a way around his self limitations.
But don’t laugh, I’m only 55 but I’m not as sharp as I was and it’s been noticeable the last few years. They say the mind is the first to go so I’ve still got my good looks ;)
To be honest all I’ve been thinking about is getting out of here for a couple weeks, couch bound with a bad foot for months and this covid separation is driving me bonkers. The boss says my guitar playing never would have improved that way it has though...
I spent a lot of time digging around for golden nuggets of knowledge while beginning my building journey so I’ll post things of value so others may find them.
I do have a hard time with the commodifying of knowledge, it’s the socialist in me, but at the same time I strongly believe we under value teachers. A catch 22 for sure when I feel education should be free but educators should be paid a premium wage. It becomes a question of a communities quality and what one or rather all feel it is worth? There is an old airplane mechanic up here who likes to say, pay me now or pay me later; it’s common sense, you know like winterizing your car with antifreeze instead of water or or your state wide energy system..., pay me now or pay me later.
Just rambling through my first cup of coffee, it’s still dark out, the Boss is at the computer, and I’m getting stoked to torture my recovering foot for a few hours, but not before I torture this guitar...
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
It's been almost a year, how are you liking yours? Perhaps an update on your last build thread might beta better place though.
Yeah will do! I will record a video or something. Been working on the second one on and off and haven’t gotten very far. Busy with my job and taking classes during the pandemic. And I’ll be curious for a report on your shellacing
I went to Spain in 2015 and built under the guidance of Stephen Hill and Pablo Requena in Stephens workshop in la herradura.
I don't get a commission but I have to say it was one of the best experiences of my 42 years on this rock.
Not only the fact I had my very own guitar at the end.But the people, the place, the adventure, the weather and the romanticism of doing it all in the province of Granada! Was truly magical. And those guys are great teachers! I know Pablo has his own thing going on now in Malaga and I'm sure his course, or Stephens, would both be a fantastic learning experience.
Videos are great and I think Pablos are some of the best out there. I watch/use them regularly. But I think one really needs to get in the workshop with a maestro and go for it. Plenty of time for watching vids and making **** ups on your own later on! 😄 (that's the stage I'm at now)
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Stu)
I’m in Spain now for Stephen’s course. All amazing so far as stu says, wish I’d done this sooner. With the way world is right now, if you want to do something and it’s possiblE then seize the opportunity.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
I’ve watched some of Pablo’s videos, he explains it clearly, and free for the time watching YouTube. You can learn a lot.
Here’s what the videos are good for, learning the terms, the concepts, and different steps in a certain order and why each maker chooses that critical path through the construction.
The videos can be used to learn which questions to ask when you get the opportunity to work with someone in person. I’m not going to spend $300.00 to evaluate the O’Brien videos, but from his free offerings he’s pretty solid, but coming out of steel string construction, those guys have to make major adaptations to talk well about flamenco guitars, so that’s a downside. However on the front of it this series seems not bad except for the idea of making a flamenco bridge with 18 holes. That’s not necessarily a good idea and it’s better to learn to make a good six hole bridge first. I think the bridge is too important and that making an 18 hole bridge is esoteric nonsense.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
Ricardo,
Not sure what you mean? And who are you kidding, you know you watch all these how to guitar videos and secretly wish you could build your own. Think it wou
Ignore Ricardo, he still thinks rosettes are stickers and that traffic cones are masterpieces of color application.
I already know a little bit about it, but if I had the resources I’d sign up to go make a guitar with Pablo or Hill. You work by yourself for a long time and you develop pathways through order of construction, it’s possible you can refine what you do even when you reach a point where you don’t have to reference plans, it’s all in your head. I miss working in a shop with other people, I don’t struggle with what to do, it’s mainly struggle with being alone a lot. If you’re a weekend builder or night time maker as a hobby or interest the alone time can be healthy and satisfying. If you’ve already figured out how it works it can become routine and take more discipline to stay with yourself that many hours. Take those trips to study with good makers.
Study the order of assembly and you just get better at the wood working as you go on.
RE: Flamenco guitar building class (in reply to Cervantes)
I took Paco's Flamenco build class on Robbie's web site. I loved it well worth the money for me. Very close to the value of an in person class. O'Brien filmed the class and he has a lot of experience as a teacher, so he filled in with the questions a student might ask. The class was very detailed and included a lot of topics that helped one get the feeling for what a Flamenco guitar should be. Many of the free you tube video's focus more on documenting a build style as opposed to teaching. Paco's class for example shows many of the processes both with hand tools and then with equipment often found in small shops.
Here is the guitar I made following the class. Plus I was lucky enough to have Paco play it during a small concert.
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